Holy/Sacred Writtings

[sarahlein]

Do you believe the Bible to be the only God-inspired sacred book?

[prometheus]

I always wondered; What happened to the holy spirit's literature aspirations? Surely he didn't stop after one book, and what a succesful one. So what other books did he write? Maybe he wrote Hamlet and Macbeth. Or maybe Faust or the Iliad. Some writers actually believe the holy spirit must have assisted them in writing some of their best works. Any other suggestions.

Don't tell me he gave up on it...

[pianistimo]

God doesn't always speak in our language.  He actively creates and so why would he remain stuck on writing little books when he actively creates life every day.  there are animals to feed, babies that are born,  people that are dying (and that He checks into the books He reserves for Himself), sunrises and sunsets to maintain, the ocean currents - fish - tidal waves.  the seasons.  everything, even though it is wearing out like a 'cloak' is still being maintained.

the Holy Spirit is living and not relegated to a book.  it is for us, as humans to actively use and create life, too.  if we have one little seed of the holy spirit, we can 'move mountains.'  that means, we can pray for a person who is sick or needing comfort or needs help in some way, and 'wherever two or three are gathered together' in His name - prayers are answered.  i have often prayed for my children alone, with amazing answers, too.  and, i've gotten some amazing answers when we were unemployed.

God's word is inspired by the Holy Spirit, but written by the hands of men.  Moses wrote the first five.  the Prophets wrote, Christ spoke and his disciples wrote down what he said.  John and James wrote many of the books - Paul.  All of them had the Holy Spirit.  So they did not counter what each other wrote - but expanded upon the ideas.  They all looked back to the 'saints' that had died before them - as we look back on the apostles and saints of old and recently dead.  a saint is merely a person who trusted and relied on God, was obedient (or repented of sin, and turned to live another way), served others as best they could, and died within the faith (not turning away to apostasy). 

Basically, we have a chance to seal our own fates.  otherwise, the bible would be written for nothing.  We have a chance to learn what God thinks.  how He operates.  it's an opportunity and privilege to know His mind.  He is the author of peace (and not confusion) - so we know if we have His spirit if we live an ordered life according to His son Christ and believe that He died for our sins and was resurrected (as we will be).  Satan is the author of confusion.  it is hard to operate in confusion.  madness and disorder don't really get anyone anywhere in this life or the next.  people take drugs sometimes when they really need God.

[lisztisforkids]

Do you believe the Bible to be the only God-inspired sacred book?

Absolutely not.

[pianistimo]

if any other book was inspired by God, it would receive Jesus Christ as not just a prophet but  Messiah of the world.  they TRIED in roman times to crucify him under the sign "King of the Jews"  but he is King of the World.

[lisztisforkids]

What about the Koran? The Bhagavad Gita? Etc..Etc...

[lisztisforkids]

if any other book was inspired by God, it would receive Jesus Christ as not just a prophet but Messiah of the world. they TRIED in roman times to crucify him under the sign "King of the Jews" but he is King of the World.

Islam views Jesus Christ as an apostle, not the king. Is the Koran not inspired by God?

[pianistimo]

Christ asked 'who do you think I am?'  then He remained silent.  if you think He is - you are a believer.  if you do not - who are we to condemn you.  God is our judge, not us.

[lisztisforkids]

Christ asked 'who do you think I am?' then He remained silent. if you think He is - you are a believer. if you do not - who are we to condemn you. God is our judge, not us.

If you do You are a beleiver in Christianity, not much else..

Many, many, Biblical Scholars do not beleive that Jesus said everything in the Bible. And why should he have? The Bible was written centurys ago, things get changed or put in. Its like a game of telephone. And what about the lost books of the Bible? Like the books of Thomas?
Ultimatley, human beings wrote the Bible, and human beings are fraught to emotions, and error. Do not believe everything you see and hear. Ironically though, if you are a fundametlist you will question everybody elses beleifs but your own.

[pianistimo]

that's not completely true.  you question before you recieve faith.  faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.  Paul wasn't a Christian.  He killed Christians.  why did he become a believer.  many people today are believers that were previously drug addicts, prostitutes, gamblers, etc. so i don't think that they are not questioning the faith - they are questioning what non-believers say and finding many ideas FALSE presumptions. 

[sarahlein]

Your comments are appreciated

God doesn't always speak in our language.  He actively creates and so why would he remain stuck on writing little books when he actively creates life every day.  there are animals to feed, babies that are born,  people that are dying (and that He checks into the books He reserves for Himself), sunrises and sunsets to maintain, the ocean currents - fish - tidal waves.  the seasons.  everything, even though it is wearing out like a 'cloak' is still being maintained.

I admire the ethusiasm you bring into your post pianistimo however my original question was refering to books that are considered Holy or sacred by different religions

more in the lines of what lisztisforkids said:

What about the Koran? The Bhagavad Gita? Etc..Etc...

There's other major religions apart from Christianity that have their own holy books.

For example there's the Hindu writings of the Veda, the Buddhist writings " Canon of the Three Baskets" and the Koran of Muslims just to mention only three.

Is God using only the Bible to transmit his thoughts to us or could it be that he uses those other books too?

What do you think?

Do you believe the Bible to be the only inspired sacred book?

Why?

[pianistimo]

i don't doubt that people can worship God in many ways - and that He can raise up whoever he wants to be a prophet - but there is only one Jesus Christ and he is greater than all the prophets.  i think what scares muslims away from the idea is that Jesus Christ was born a jew.  but, he literally could have been born any of the races because in actuality He is God and the creator of all.  perhaps, just as he was born with no particular good looks, he also wanted to sustain the hopes of that race that he knew was of the kingly davidic line - and that satan wanted to extinguish many times through many ways.  now, after Christ, that kingly line is extended to all who come to know Christ and believe - we will enter into a kingdom (not made of human hands) that extends it's power beyond the physical realm into the spiritual.  we have a chance to be 'sons of God' (as mentioned in psalms).

[sarahlein]

i don't doubt that people can worship God in many ways

That may be so but how do you go about to prove it?

So that leads back to my original question. Where does one look for answers?
I would say to the book that God provided to give us the answers, but which book is that? Is it the Bible? Other?

[pianistimo]

seems that whatever culture you are born into, you pretty much blankly learn the customs, religion, etc.  even if your country is non-religious or used to be religious and then the religion was banned. 

as i see it, you can trace christianity backwards AND forwards.  whoever is getting persecuted is probably christian.  i mean beheaded, martyred, put in prison... in these countries.  the book of revelations mentions these things will happen to Christians.  of course, they happen to others, too - but probably not in the same quantities at the same time. 

if you want to set up a world government, how do you do it?  by ridding people of the idea that there could be any other world government or ruler.  don't you think it was a bit bizarre that herod (with all the power he already possessed) to kill all the 2 year olds in the area of bethlehem.  there must have been an element of understanding of the spiritual realm (probably his use of mystics) to be threatened by a baby. 

the same goes today.  there are people that DO understand the spiritual realm.  it's just that they're on the other side.  they think that killing christians is good.  but, in effect,it does nothing to stop the inevitable return of Christ with his saints.  they'll be ressurrected even though they are dead for a moment.

[sarahlein]

So pianistimo are you saying then that the Bible is the book we should turn to for answers?

[pianistimo]

it is what i am familiar with and believe with all my heart.  at the same time, i don't doubt that God can save whomever He will.  there's someplace int he bible that says 'and whoever calls upon His name will be saved.'  so in terms of everyone understanding christianity from a judeo-christian perspective might be wrong in terms of the absolute saving power of Christ in God.  He wouldn't make things unfair.  i think there will be a 'retraining period' - that 1000 years of the milleneum where people come to know God and his ways.  otherwise, we might think He's unfair.

[prometheus]

God is feeding animals? God is creating life? It seems to me some animals don't get fed and just die. And if they do it all goes automatic. It seems they find their food on their own. I never heard a behavioral biologist observe describe god feeding an animal. If god feeds his creation then why did he give all female mammals breasts? And life, it seems to be created automaticallly too. And about 50% of the fertilied egg cells of humans fail to settle in the woumb and grow. Yes, miscarriage rare is above 50%. Doesn't really seem that God is busy intervening here.

About the holy spirit. He inspired the books of the bible. Yes, he didn't write them. He 'possesed' people to write those book. And the holy spitit is a very different person than god. If god goes around creating and feeding life, the holy spirit does not. So if we all miraculously missed our busy god, then the holy spirit still has all the time to write some more books.


Ooh, and Jesus as a child kills some people in the book of Thomas. He kills one kid who bumps into him. I think he changes some adult into a tree, was it his teacher?

[pianistimo]

i don't understand where that last sentence came from...but i understand the reasoning of the previous two paragraphs.  the animals rely on God to provide food in 'due season.'  if he didn't control our planet carefully (temperature, tides, seasons) we would all freeze, food wouldn't grow, we'd just be exterminated by wild natural forces. 

God never speaks of the Holy Spirit as possessing anyone.  But, demons possess.  They take over someone's mind so they cannot think for themselves.  The Holy Spirit is said to guide.  that is much different.  guiding someone along a path is different than forcing them.  God is writing a book of names (the book of LIFE).  if your name is in it, you are destined for life.  if it is not - you should pray that it will be!  it's important.  more important than we realize (otherwise God wouldn't have allowed the bible to be written).  jews often recognize this period of grace between one year and the next -culminating right before the feast of sukkot (which is an 8 day feast int he fall).  it is a reminder of the millenial rule of Christ as king of the world (messiah) and the jews mention that fasting and prayer is done to plead with God to keep their names in the book of life.  i thought this was interesting and even for Christians something to think about during the year.  we don't want God to get fed up with us - as parents do with children - because of our sin.  we want to remain in the 'book of life.'  so it's probably a good idea to tell him you want your name kept in there - and show Him it's important to you.

[gruffalo]

i have recently become a Christian in the last two years through certain experiences. i have no doubts about my belief because i have experienced God, and when i did have doubts before i used to ask myself "what teenager at the age of 15 aimlessly starts believing in God just because other people go to church and stuff?" I had no intentions of following a religion. i always believed in God but never sure about religion.

sorry this is out of context but i just had to let it out.

[sarahlein]

it is what i am familiar with and believe with all my heart

Granted. However this fails to satisfy my search for some answers.

The way I see it, is that if God wants us to get to know Him and have some sort of a relationship with Him then he will reveal himself clearly to us. I have no doubt that this is done through a book since this is a reliable way of trasmitting information.

So which is this book that can answer life's questions?
Is it the Bible?
If it is then what makes it so unique that places it, without any doubt, above all other Sacred writtings of other (non-Christian) religions?

Does any one of you Christians care to defend your Holy Book?

[pianistimo]

what comes to my mind is the last chapter or verses in revelations that warns if anyone changes the words in the book - etc etc.  i have to look it up again - but it is a warning from  God so that no one will be deceived by the bible (unless it is a bad translation).  it says, 'if anyone adds to or subtracts from these words...etc etc'  so i take that to mean - no adding or subtracting.

[sarahlein]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

However that takes for granted that I believe the Bible to be the Word of God.
What if I don't?

How can you help me see the reasons for accepting it as God-inspired? 

[thalbergmad]

This is a very interesting thread and i have enjoyed reading the posts.

Many years ago i read a book about the history of the Bible which i appear to have lost. Basically it covered all the parts of the Bible which have been edited out over the years for various reasons.

Apparantly, books such as the Gospel of Matthias and the Apocolypse of St John were removed as they did not paint the picture the Church wished us to view.

Therefore, there must be many sacred writings outside of the Bible.

[pianistimo]

the apocrypha had been reviewed first by rabbis and then by the christian church (which added many books to the bible) - but i think (i hope this is correct -but i'm no scholar) the rabbis found some mis-quoting and mistakes in some of the books that made them less authentic.  so, doubting authenticity - they went with the books they knew were inspired (as the words were correlated) AND - they probably prayed for the inspired Word to be what was actually inspired. 

will look up this info.  i think in the king james and moreso in the old scofield bible - there is a huge amount of info in the forward or preface.  being kinda wierd, i read all this stuff.  it explains how they came to the books that were included vs the ones that were excluded.

as far as proving the Bible the authentic Words of God - it is the only Book that has Christ's quotations in it as far as i know.  in many bibles they are printed in red - so that you can read what he actually said.  if you want a microwave version of the Bible - one could just read the red print.  it's very to the point.  do unto others as you would have them do to you.  but, often 'religious' people and 'religions' make it into factions and warring about doctrine.  so sorry!  i think it's about caring for the sick and the orphans and 'keeping oneself unspotted' from the world.  unspotted must mean different.  whatever is generally accepted by society is probably not so generally accepted by a christian who is trying to stay along a course of 'discernment.'  (not just generally accepting things because they are said to be true).  of course, this also works the other way - where people need to see for themselves (as doubting thomas) the ressurrected Christ.  this is where my son is at.  unless he sees Him and speaks to him - and feels his love personally - he's fairly mad at Him.  or, if not mad, just wondering.

[lisztisforkids]

This is a very interesting thread and i have enjoyed reading the posts.

Many years ago i read a book about the history of the Bible which i appear to have lost. Basically it covered all the parts of the Bible which have been edited out over the years for various reasons.

Apparantly, books such as the Gospel of Matthias and the Apocolypse of St John were removed as they did not paint the picture the Church wished us to view.

Therefore, there must be many sacred writings outside of the Bible.

Indeed, there are many 'lost books', books that were taken out of the Bible. We must question its validity, but more importantly, Christians must question its validity.

what comes to my mind is the last chapter or verses in revelations that warns if anyone changes the words in the book - etc etc. i have to look it up again - but it is a warning from God so that no one will be deceived by the bible (unless it is a bad translation). it says, 'if anyone adds to or subtracts from these words...etc etc' so i take that to mean - no adding or subtracting.

But pianistimo, there have been many additions and subtractions to Bible.

[sarahlein]

....and yet the question remains.

as far as proving the Bible the authentic Words of God - it is the only Book that has Christ's quotations in it as far as i know

I agree as far as the Bible being the only book that has Christ's quotations in it.

However one can only accept Christ's role in God's purpose for us and benefit from it, if one takes the Bible as the Word of God-the Book that has the final say in all matters.

So saying that, because it contains Christ's quotations is proof that the Bible is the authentic Words of God, is not a satisfying argument.

Is there no other evidence to point to it's being truly God-inspired?

[prometheus]

Pianistimo, this is getting silly. People can predict the weather without knowing Gods mood. There is no sign of god intervening in the weather. Tides and seasons are all explained without God. This is getting too absurd. I am going to give up. This is like talking to a brainwashed child. If you can't even accept how rain 'works' and think God just creates rain through a miracle then there is no reason for me to type anymore.

[pianistimo]

this may be simple reasoning to many people, but as i see it - faith does depend on what we prove to be true for ourselves.  we prove it by testing it to see if it works for us and for others. 

governments have come and gone, but usually they've been based on a monetary system.  if you look at the original plans of God for society it was mainly agrarian.  people came together in communities and if someone was hurting, they helped them.  nowdays, if you don't have money you are regarded as nothing.  this is a false system to me.  why should money be a determining factor in anything - other than to use it wisely. 

Jesus Christ brought a philosophy unlike any other of the philosophers. He said you can only serve one Master.  Him or money.  if you are basing your life on what you can get out of it - you are serving money.  if you are basing your life on what you can give, you are serving God whether you know it or not.

what i find amazing, too, is that Christ was actually God in the flesh.  as he grew, and prayed, and became close to His heavenly Father - many things that He previously knew were again revealed in His mind.  He knew how the world worked mathematically and every other way - in more detail than einstein.  Yet how much of his gospel was science?  none that i can see - other than 'if the sky is red... you know such and such will happen.'  but, the most of his gospel was LOVE.  science is FACT or hypothesis until proven.

God gave us the ability to find out about science - to study and have something to do for however long we've been on the planet.  but, in terms of salvation, He never said - you must pass calculus.  this makes me not feel silly at all.  if i have love for another person it's equal to proving to a mathematician that i can do a calculus question.  it is reasoning, but on a simpler level.  what can i do to make another person's life easier or blessed.

Christ went around healing the sick, tending to the lame, preaching to those who had basically lost hope (maybe akin to those who are destitute today - whether with sickness or drug problems or addictions of other kinds).  he preached a different kind of hope.  usually, we might say, pick yourself up - get a job.  do something IMPORTANT.  but Christ realized every person was DIFFERENT - and he used different approaches on every different person he met.  if he was dealing with a tax collector, He used the knowledge they were familiar with. 

same with Christ's parables - using the rich man and the poor man as HOPE for those who have none in this life.  (or seemingly have none).  what other government gives hope to people?  we have lived through so many governments that are basically failed in terms of serving ALL the people and not just MOST. 

if the jews were given the oracles of God and the responsibility of the calendar, then they are the ones to look to as far as what books should be in the bible.  not, anyone else, because it wasn't given to anyone else to decide.  fraud is in art - and people prove easily the fakes because they don't match the criteria of authentic.  so, the rabbi's of old went through fairly rigorous arguments to prove that the manuscripts that were left out were not authentic or doubtful in origin. 

God told them to keep His words and be an example to the rest of the world.  it all started with Abraham being the 'father of many nations.'  not just peoples but NATIONS.  did you know today, most of the nations that have the BIBLE are nations that came from ABRAHAM.  and, yet, God also works in the Muslim nations.  Ishmael was just as much a son of Abraham as Issac.  Yet issac was chosen to pass on the blessings of Israel - down through today.  this has been by God's prerogative -so that no one can say they are blessing themselves.  Now our blessings are being taken away.  the reason is that we are not listening to God's word (which we have available) and have become a laughingstock to people in other nations which might keep God's word better.

for instance, covering women's heads was a custom not just for muslims but also for jews.  they were looking to the bible when they read 'it is right for a woman to cover her  head' as a sign of admitting the authority of God and her husband in the synagogue  - or temple.  if both sons (ishmael and issac) knew the same laws at one time - then they would both be fairly consistent with each other.  the arabs and jews are more alike that any other countries because they actually ARE brothers. 

nowdays, we wouldn't use a veil in church, but merely a hat.  when you look at a woman well dressed for a service (whether church, wedding, formal event) a hat makes her look better.  it's no terrible crime to wear a hat - so why a veil.  you are simply revealing that you like being a woman and you like to look good.  some may think my reasoning is really simple - but, it's quite complex.  to God there is an order of who is responsible for who.  In the garden of eden, he didn't ask the woman first - but the man.  then the woman, then the serpent.  in our day, we ask the serpent, then the woman, then the man.  i think the order is messed up.  men are let off the hook for being responsible for anything. 

i think the original idea was beautiful, especially in the case of Abraham.  he basically spoiled his wife.  he didn't beat her or take advantage of her in any way.  he was always concerned about her and considered her points of vew.  so, in view of the modern idea of equal rights - they HAD equal rights - it was just that they realized the authority of one to make a final decision (yet, considering the points of view of the others they represent).  what government is not chaos with a thousand rulers. 

i think many things which are ridiculed are simply not tried.  we have tried everything ELSE but God's word and ways.  that is why we have so much war, death, confusion, etc.  we are not BLESSED.  blessings are not scientific enough.  But, if you believe in God, then you believe that there is a result from every action you take.  if you do right, there is a good consequence.  if you do wrong, there is evil.  and, nowdays, we have every sort of evil.  I don't see the news telling us that we have made significant progress in society even though our science has made astonishing progress.  people don't know how to LOVE.  how to give up something of their own for another.