Octaves/Finger stretching?

[semme]

Hi there,

Ive got some problems. My latest piece im working on is "fantasie impromptu" (chopin).
I just practiced like every other student, stopping if my hand started to hurt. ( its been the most difficult piece so far) It was no big deal until i focused on that second page. It consists of broken octaves and 2 keys in between before the second octave starts ( sth. like 1-5-2-3 ). My problem is strechting the index and middle finger additional to the octaves ( its like when you stretch all your fingers, you cant move your index, middle and ringfinger horizontally). I think i dont really relaxe the parts of my wrist, or what should be. after 2-3 days my hand started to hurt sooner and sooner and now im sitting here pausing my right hand for a week, with some anti-inflamation creams and some kind of armlet that is supposed to relax the tendons. What am i doing wrong? I cant help streching my fingers, otherwise i cant play. There is this so called controlled tension, but can you apply it to this part? And i dont think my hand is too small. ( a ninth is possible). Are there any stretching exercises, that help getting a wider span? Or is it just a matter of patience till i get used to it if there is no special technique to it?

If you had the same/similar problem, how did you deal with it?
Answers greatly appreciated.

[zheer]

Can i be totaly honest, i think you should put this piece to on side if you are finding it such a problem. Work on something less demanding.Gradually you will be playing this composition when you are older. Am guessing that you are 13 - 14 years old and your hand is too small, and i bet you are female.

[semme]

eh, no ... 16 years, male. 

[clef]

lol, got you there.  Well I am 15 male, can reach a 10th with one hand comfortably, and sometimes I can reach an 11th.   There have been some songs I have played that have been a bit uncomfortable, but none that have been impossible.

[Bob]

Sounds like you are pushing it if you use creams and things to numb the pain.  Your body is telling you "Too much!"  I would guess you will either decide to stop or the pain will get too much (not to mention having your playing ability decline).  Persisent is one thing.  Stupid stubbornness is another.

Maybe put it aside, or keep it on "low" for practicing. 

I have had a few pieces my hands have had to "grow" into.  It can take a year to see real change.  Real change meaning you can play it without painful effort. 

Maybe you can use some stepping stone pieces?

Keep working on the technique.  Just don't push so hard as often.

I have seen lots of threads about this piece.  Maybe there is a better fingering?

I have successfully stretched my hands a bit.  I think it's a natural part of playing the piano -- You do octaves at some point.  I tried to push it further.  I think I really just maxed out what my hands are capable of.  The hands are just bones webbed together with flesh so it can be stretched.  But carefully of course.

[steve jones]

I have been successful in stretching my handspan quite significantly. When I started playing exactly 12 months ago I could play a 9th with a stretch. Now I can play a tenth (C-E) comfortably with both hands. Here's what I did:

Static Passive Stretch:

Place the hand out stetched with the thumb and pinky against a surface (like the edge of a table,  or the keys of your piano). Gently push, forcing the angle between 1 and 5 to widen.  Be sure to have the wrist so that the thumb nail is pointing towards you (not up) - you should feel a stretch in the palm muscles, not the joint! Also, be sure never only to increase the range of motion until you feel a good stretch and NEVER until it hurts. Perform the stretch for 30 to 120 seconds. As the palm losens, increase the stretch.

Hopefully, you will find that after this stretch you will be able to access your current greatest range of motion.


Dynamic Stretches:

Here I use some simply dynamic exercises to enable me to hit longer intevals during place. Try this:

Bounce (slowly to start with) these intervals C - C, C - D, C - E, C - D, C - C...

You can adapt this to fit your hand better. For example, some people might want to go further / less depending on their physiology. As your dynamic flexibility improves, you can increase the speed of this exercise.


Practice Rolled Chords:

Next I like to practice rolling very wide chords - 11th, 12th, 13th etc. I take chords from pieces, such as Chopin Etude 10 - 11 (which I cant play at all btw!). But I think it is a good dynamic exercise to practice this as its good for the wrist as well as the hand. Plus it works great to losen the hand after the previous stretches.


Practice Chords:

Finally, I like to place random 1 - 5 - 10 or 1 - 6 - 10 chords, using the pedal to connect. The chords arent really that important (to me at least), but I try to come up with little improved progressions that sound nice. At the moment Im only doing this on the white keys.  The purpose is only to practice hitting these chords in performance.



I have been doing this now for 6 months or more. My reach has increased notably, as has my ability to pull of wide chords in pieces. I have not suffered any pain or stiffness at all. The only thing I did have was an odd swelling on my LH ring finger, but that turned out to be from the cold (I had been working outside for several days previous!) and nothing to do with playing the piano.

Hope this helps!

[semme]

thanks for the answers bob and steve. i hope it benefits me as much as it did you, steve.