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Topic: Learning as Fast as Possible  (Read 2914 times)

Offline klm46

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Learning as Fast as Possible
on: January 15, 2006, 03:43:33 PM
This might have come up before, but how would you go about learning a piece if you only have a limited amount of time to spare?  This is assuming that the piece is within your technical ability, if not a little challenging, and that you have got around a month to learn it.  Not the ideal situation to get stuck in! 

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #1 on: January 15, 2006, 03:56:08 PM
this is exactly where i am at.  i want to be faster at learning pieces.

so far i have learned:

if you memorize from the beginning and only take a certain number of measures per day and don't get ahead of yourself - you'll have it memorized.

if you want to learn it in a month from the score - sightread it every day (many times per day)

don't combine the two techniques if you are pianistically challenged - stick with the memorization and determine how many measures it will take per day to come up to the two week mark (two weeks i guess).  then the last two weeks should be getting the whole thing up to speed.  that's my timeline.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #2 on: January 15, 2006, 03:57:41 PM
maybe you COULD combine the techniques, but just not spending too much time sightreading!  working out the fingering is important.

Offline steve jones

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #3 on: January 15, 2006, 05:03:51 PM

I guess the problems arrise if you are having to develop new technique with the piece. In my own experience, this extends the timescale considerably.

If the piece is within your level, and there is little new ground to cover, then I think a couple of weeks of hard work should do it. Not to say you have it perfected, but I'd imagine you could play the piece within this period.

Offline lau

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #4 on: January 15, 2006, 06:43:08 PM
When I really want to learn something, I'll learn and memorize a page per day
i'm not asian

Offline mike_lang

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #5 on: January 15, 2006, 11:10:51 PM
.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #6 on: January 16, 2006, 05:51:28 AM
Scissors, paper, color pencils, glue. Cut up the score. Color it in so groups are easily identifiable. Stick the score all over your room. Practice like mad with another copy of the score infront of you neatly sectioned up into manageable memorisable groups for you. Return to the room of sticky paper often and observe and hum the music in your head as you look at it.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline pianistimo

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #7 on: January 16, 2006, 11:11:13 PM
good advice...because i'm very visually learning oriented.  i think i would start remembering the notes more - if i put 'cut-ups' of my pieces in every room.  just like learning a language.

what if one plastered all their favorite music all over the walls and used it as a sort of wall paper - and polyurithaned over it.  might be hard to redecorate after that one - but, just an idea.

Offline pita bread

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #8 on: January 16, 2006, 11:52:12 PM
Discipline yourself to practicing very slowly.  For the first few days, practice slowly only.  I've applied this technique to Mephisto Waltz, for recent example, and find that at least half of it is memorized though it has been only six days.  Everyone in my studio uses this technique, and some have made greater progress than others (one student learned and memorized Carl Vine's Sonata in one week, another Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini in the same amount of time).  The idea is that with much repetition at a slow tempo, the fingers know it and the mind can learn notes from the fingers and music from the score.

This slow tempo method also diminishes most technical problems for the time being.

Offline henrah

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #9 on: January 18, 2006, 10:50:20 AM
The slow method of memorizing the notes is very effective. Then, once you have memorised them, play it slowly but in a dotted rhythm i.e. dotted quaver-semi quaver. This keeps the playing at the same tempo as before so you have enough time to remember the notes, but you will be learning the fast moves inbetween the notes. I have found this very usefuly. Also, another thing I do is repeat passages over and over again until I can play them 3 times without mistakes, then do it a bit faster, then with dotted rhythm. After that you should be able to play that passage perfectly, aside a few musical errors like dynamics and the such, but they should come after the learning of the notes.
Henrah
Currently learning:<br />Liszt- Consolation No.3<br />J.W.Hässler- Sonata No.6 in C, 2nd mvt<br />Glière- No.10 from 12 Esquisses, Op.47<br />Saint-Saens- VII Aquarium<br />Mozart- Fantasie KV397<br /

Offline nicolaievich

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #10 on: January 18, 2006, 05:39:05 PM
I really have problems to memorize pieces, and I have difficulties to practice slowly, my patience goes quickly. I have to discipline at that. That's true.

These days I have started to try memorizing as quick as possible and once ready repeat the piece first slowly, and accelerating as you improve the technique. I have tried this with the Chopin Etude Op.10 No.1 and with the Prelude Op.28 No.1 and No.5, it's working!!!  ;D

Offline crazy for ivan moravec

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #11 on: January 18, 2006, 06:20:20 PM
a lil piece of advice from me.. (might be insignificant to some)

try to go for quality over quantity.

i wouldn't care if it'd take me the whole day to do just one page, as long as i can play it from memory, clean, and musical. if i can do more pages, then that's just a plus.:)

basically, i think the benefits of this are great. you learn more by learning less. but i also notice learning gets speedier everyday (repetitions of sections/passages are my bestfriends). if loopholes are left behind, you'll surely go back to it again and again, which will eat your time. and psychologically, it is stress and it will make you feel insecure all the more.

if you have a deadline (as in deadly), just make sure to make a timetable and work around that schedule.
Well, keep going.<br />- Martha Argerich

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #12 on: January 19, 2006, 07:18:17 AM
I'm all about memorizing first.

Of course, figure out the best fingerings, and THEN memorize.

This week I learned the first movement of the Tempest sonata, and the only reason is because I memorized and then played over and over, slowly and quickly.

Offline pianowelsh

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #13 on: January 24, 2006, 12:37:24 PM
Interesting re slow practice.
I do agree that one MUST begin by going in slow and making sure everythng you do is 100% accurate.  However this method of practising is only of limited use in fast pieces or etudes.  If you learn a piece perfectly slow there is a danger that you will begin to use the wrong muscles for a piece which is actually fast! and you will theefore trip yourself up when you try to play it 'at tempo'.  There is also the danger that your concept of the piece will get distorted ie dawdling over a certain modulation which when played slow sounds very significant but at tempo is actually a structural 'leading on moment' SO my advice is to split your practice  and do loads of very slow  WITH METRONOME practice at the beginning - to make sure EVERYTHING is perfectly in place.  Once you can actually get through a section or if its short the whole piece. crank up the metronome to two thirds tempo and go for it so that you get the shape and rough feel of what it will feel like to play it upto speed. on 99%:1% ratio with each week alter the ratio ie 80% slow 20% fast, 70% slow 30% fast and you will need to crank up the metronome to as close to perf tempo as poss.  You should try and play as accurately as you can at the full tempo in your 'fast% - workout' but if there are little slips let them go for now and fix them in the slow tempo practice.  the more you progress the more time you will spend working at the fast tempo and then you need to start working in close detail to make sure everything is tight at tempo.  I use circular practice now and will loop a particular corner (often modulatory passages) and nail them at tempo in isolation.  i forgot to say that you should use the slow practice as an opportunity to memorize.  between playings and when playing very slowly observe all the details of the score and even say them out loud (my pedal point here is a' I have an e minor broken chord in triplets in my right hand and im leading to this chord at the beginning of the next bar etc).  This method is quite labour intensive BUT the results are fast.  Enabled me to serviceably get through Chopin etudes for my teacher at coll with a week - fornights work on them - and i was not one of the most talented by a long chalk!! :D Hope some of these musings help

Offline pantonality

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Re: Learning as Fast as Possible
Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 03:59:19 PM
I find hands separate practise helps in learning the notes and working pieces up to tempo. Once I can play a piece HS at tempo then put the hands together. This way you learn the muscle movements needed to play fast, but without the intellectual overhead of playing hands together. After that always finish practicing a piece by playing it slowly and perfectly, or at least sections slow and perfect.
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