To play what one likes or to play what one HAS to play.

[canardroti]

My question is simple as this.
Is it better to play pieces you don't particulary like but you don't dislike either, however that are within your technical capacities.
OR, is it better just to play pieces you love and enjoy practicing them and is willing to spend countless hours to perfect it?

Here is my problem , I have to play a Beethoven sonata and those i really like are :
op 90 in E minor, the tempest, Pathetique, moonlight, appassionata, les adieux.

However,  I presented those to my teacher and she said that maybe the Pathetique was the only one within my reach. BUt since  I've heard this piece being played too many time , I declined her suggestion.
I suggested the Tempest sonata, and she went on saying that it was too hard for me and that it would take me too long to learn it. blah blah blah.
So she put in front of my eyes Beethoven 's first sonata.
I don't particularly like that piece nor do i hate it , and it is definitely within my abilities but I just hate practicing it, I don't  really have any passion for that piece at all.


So  what  do you think?  I'm sure we'v all been through that, but what 's realy the best way to grow and  improve ? Play what we like and selll our soul tryign to learn  a piece? or play what we dislike and learn it in 2 weeks ?

[jamie_liszt]

We all have to do things we don't like, Following your teachers advice might be a good idea, If your teacher thinks your not ready for those other pieces, Maybe you should wait. I'm speaking from experience here. But if you want to play the harder pieces go for it, no one is stopping you. Just becareful otherwise you will have to start from basics if you stuff up  lol And remember teachers arn't always right, you could try proving your teacher wrong.

good luck

[nicko124]

So she put in front of my eyes Beethoven 's first sonata.
I don't particularly like that piece nor do i hate it , and it is definitely within my abilities but I just hate practicing it, I don't  really have any passion for that piece at all.

I presume you are reffering to Op.2 No.1. I decided to do the first movement of that sonata for my Grade 7 exam. All I can tell you is that by the end of learning it I was glad to move on to new material. However it was a fairly good addition to my repetoire even if I was fairly miserable memorising the thing at the time.

I also really like the other 3 movements of the sonata, I gathered from your post that you are going to be learning the whole sonata, is that right?

The first movement certainly isn't an easy piece, in fact it is on the AB Grade 8 board I think. The changing dynamics is perhaps the most difficult thing in my opinion, it is also pretty tiring to play so you need to pace yourself.

My opinion is that you will probably learn the sonatas that you like with a more positive attitude simply because you really want to play them. Therefore their difficulty will not be as much as an issue because you may practice more because you like them. I have found in the past that doing pieces that are just above my level has stretched my ability to be able to cope with them.

[whynot]

The longer I play, the more I see that it's a lot of work to play anything really well, even pieces that seem easy.  We make the investment no matter what.  There is SO MUCH great music in our repertoire, we'll never get through everything we like as it is, so I am strongly in favor of playing music we care about at every possible opportunity.  However, that doesn't cover every contigency.  For example, if you didn't want to play any Beethoven at all, your teacher would have to have a problem with this, since it sounds like you're in an academic program and she is responsible for covering certain territory with you.  But since you do want to play Beethoven, respecting her judgment on the Les Adieux, there are a lot of other sonatas you could start with.  I think you should just play through all of them on your own.  It's fantastic music; you'll find something you like on a level with the one your teacher suggested.  I understand why people want to take on real challenge pieces, and sometimes that works out, but sometimes not.  If there are technical events that you haven't faced before and you're not working on it with your teacher, you might solve a technical problem in an undesirable way, which could be not too big a deal, or could be a very big deal-- depending on what you're asking your body to do versus what it can do.   

In a structured program, students are supposed to get exposed to music they haven't encountered before or wouldn't have considered on their own, and there is something to be said for this.  But since you are already very interested in such pillars of the repertoire, I see no reason for you to choke down one sonata you dislike if you can find a comparable one that you really care about.  Someone graded these, who?  Cortot?  That's got to be floating around here somewhere.  Grading is subjective and incomplete, but can still be a helpful starting point in choosing a substitute piece.  Again, though, I'd just play through them all.  Good luck!  Play music you love!

[ted]

I have played nothing I haven't wanted to play in over forty years, but since I have never taken academic piano courses and have never played for money I suppose this is easy for me to say and very little use to anybody.

[whynot]

I think it's very useful, Ted, and I'm glad you said it.  As an accompanist, I've played gobs of music I don't care for, but I'm letting that happen less as I get older.  For solo playing, I've only done one piece that wasn't my own choice.  My current teacher gave me a big piece that I hated at first, the kind of piece I would never have chosen.  I learned it to please him because he's been really good to me, but actually, I ended up liking it so much I'll probably keep it in my repertoire forever!  Unrelated,  I just realized the meaning of the original poster's name.  I didn't get it without the little Chinese hat. 

[rc]

Do you have to learn a Beethoven sonata within a certain timeframe for something?

If that's the case, I would say to take your teachers advice. The first sonata is a fine piece of music, a lot of expressive potential, and that explosive finale! It is definitely something I would be glad to bust out on occassion. I like Whynot's point on how much effort could be put into a technically easy piece to make it sound as good as possible.

If you have some sort of deadline, it would be wiser to learn something you know you can handle technically, so as to be able to invest more time in making it truely worthy of performance. Otherwise you may find your teacher was right and you'll be screwed. Perhaps dedicating a bit of time just listening to recordings and finding the reasons to like the piece would cure the hatred of practicing it.

If there is no time limit, then just do whatever you like... If the pieces you want to play are too much you can drop it and come back to later, no consequence, maybe your teacher will say "I told ya so". If you can handle them that's great, your teacher will have more confidence in you.

[donjuan]

I teacher does this to me all the time.  Actually, I shouldn't say that; My teacher does this FOR me all the time.  I have very specific tastes in music, but sometimes I care too much about the ends and forget about the means.  For example, I brought my teacher Liszt's B-minor sonata.  He was taken back a little, but let me continue on my own, doubtless in his mind that I would not need someone like him to tell me I would fail.  So there I was, 2 pages in, and terribly stuck.  I mean, REALLY REALLY stuck.  I couldn't just go to him to ask for clarification on one or two things; I was really just pathetically incapable of playing the notes on the page.  So I gave up the piece, sadly; My teacher never once told me to give it up because he is such an amazing person, and is never so quick to lose hope in his students.  I bet he would have worked on that sonata with me for 5 years, no matter how unprepared I was. 

He then prescribed Schubert Sonata Op. 120 for me to try instead.  I didn't like it especially; I felt like a charletan when performing it, because I felt in my heart that I had nothing to say whatsoever, but I play those notes anyway.  I learned the first two movements for my teacher - just to show him I am a competent student who doesnt whine and beg just because I dont always get what I want. 

Maybe you will find Tempest sonata easier if you attempt an easier Beethoven Sonata first.  Get to know the style first and you simply can't not find your goals easier to reach in the future.  I still plan an playing Liszt's B- minor sonata someday; My problem is that it is either easy or impossible, and I shall not give it another go until I feel it is the former. 

[chiyo]

I've heard from my teacher that playing a piece WAY WAY over my skills could harm the techniques I already have...I dunno if she said this to discourage me from trying Lizst etudes but at least thats what she says .

[rimv2]

I've heard from my teacher that playing a piece WAY WAY over my skills could harm the techniques I already have...I dunno if she said this to discourage me from trying Lizst etudes but at least thats what she says .

You would spend so much time practicing the Liszt etude that your other technique would fade and all you have is what you just learned. (I trust this is what she means)

Practicing a bar a week (10-20 minutes a day) while continuing your regular study wouldnt hurt nearly as bad. It would be numbing, and you'd be aching to try and go further, but it takes years to master these piece anyway. Going ahead and trying to learn it all at once would be a disservice to yourself.

[jamie_liszt]

donjuan, lol Don't feel bad, that liszt sonata is **** hard, i wouldn't dream of even touching that piece for about 30 years, its so long and hard.

Anyway no matter what piece i bring to my teacher she would still encourage me to give it a go, even though she might be thinking, you idiot you can't play that, she lets me figure it out on my own but im not that much of an idiot to try the liszt sonata (no offence donjuan)

Any yes playing to hard a piece your not ready for can harm your technique and you will have to start from basics (ive said that so many times)

[aryantes]

I think a lot of it depends on what your motivation is for piano.

My teacher has a whole line of repertoire set for me but there are also tons of pieces that he asks me if i like. ( he sightreads it and then asks if i want to learn it )

I would not be able to keep myself inspired for piano if I did not play pieces that I like and choose myself. At least, that is why I am learning, because I want to be able to play my favorite pieces. NOT so that I can become a super virtuoso pianist and have everybody know about it.

There are a lot of things that I want to play, not all of them pertain to the common things out there like classical bach and what not. I mean, even final fantasy music, anime music, pop music, etc.

If I bring in one of these pieces my teacher will help me with fingering and such or if I have a question, he'll help answer it.

This is priceless for me. If there is a piece that I really really want to play and I'm not good enough, it makes me want to get better. Which makes me want to follow my teacher's advice because I know he is good and helps me a lot.

There is a point though, I would not suggest a beginner try to learn chopin polonaise in A flat or something.  The time spent here trying to learn it would be horribly inefficient.

I would say stick 'somewhat' close to your technical abilities but I'm always trying for things a little bit harder which I think is helpful.

[steinman]

My attitude is to play what I like. And I find that out by going to recitals, concerts and exploring recorded music and browsing sheet music. My teacher goes along with this - and gives a lot of freedom - there again - when I learnt for graded exams in the past i took my teachers advice, and worked on the syllabus to get through the exam.

However, I think it's important to have a balanced diet and not concentrate too much on one era or composer - it's much more refreshing that way. I've had teachers in the past who wouldnt teach contemporary music - even without trying it. It's sad to be prejudiced when a little exporation can bring a lot of reward.

You could always learn the Beethoven sonatas you like (under your own steam) alongside your main pieces (without telling teacher - he! he!).

BTW, the Op 90 sonata is technically the same in terms of difficulty as Op2,1 (IMHO) the major difficulty being a tricky bass in the first mvt. which everybody seems to struggle with = this movt is on the grd 8 syllabus of ABRSM at the moment - so this could be one to learn.

[pianogeek_cz]

For the last year or so, I chose pieces on this basis: Listen -> Like -> Get sheet music -> see whether it's at least slightly manageable (so far, always turned out to be...) -> Explore the piece, w/score only, then at the piano -> See whether it's reasonably manageable (so far, always...) -> Dig out the Bernhard posts which deal with practicing (Thanks to m1469's most excellent index, this doesn't take long anymore...  ) and follow them up to the point where I need my teacher's advice (usually when I know the piece fairly well, memorized and at slow tempo HT. That's, however, not always the stage, sometimes it's earlier, somtimes later on...) -> Continue working on it with the teacher -> Finish it. (That's the best stage... )

That works perfectly for me... I think one of the main things that makes me practice is the knowledge "I'm playing what I really like." So far, with this approach, I ran into no difficulties with my teacher... I have complete freedom in choosing my repertoire, and she doesn't have to be digging through libraries for repertoire suggestions... 

So, to answer the original question from my point of view: It is better to do pieces you'd be willing to spend countless hours on, as long as those countless hours yield visible (or, better, audible... ) results. It's probably pointless to learn the Liszt sonata like that, but, at the same time, if you really like op. 90, there's no reason why not to work on it. I know very, very few feelings that equal mastering and performing the pieces I really like and I've spent hours and hours on. It's one hell of motivation to learn the next one.  Compared with "Whew, that hated [insert your own forced-to-practice piece here] is finally behind me", I think it's clear... The only limitations are time and how well you can estimate your abilities (The latter usually being a matter of one or two hours for the particular piece, sometimes, it's just obvious from the score...).

Just my $0.02.

You could always learn the Beethoven sonatas you like (under your own steam) alongside your main pieces (without telling the teacher - he! he!).

That's how I'm learning the TEs. Sssh!

[infectedmushroom]

I only play pieces I like. If I don't like a piece, I would never learn it completely. Or when I heard the piece already before I start studying on it, I would never start learning it. I play the piano cause I want to have a good time and have fun. I want to play with the emotion I feel while playing a piece. Most of the time, I don't get some kinda "feeling" when I play an, for me, uninteresting piece.