Pass the goll darn butter

[pizno]

OK, it was really 'Pass the God damn butter'.  Excuse my language, but someone just told me this as a way to get 3 agains 4 in your head.  Has anyone heard this before?  Try it!  A friend just taught me this, learned from her teacher.  I've been tapping it on my steering wheel as I drive.

Then we started thinking about 2 against 3.  Please pass the salt?  Or, you can get as raunchy as you want.  I love these little learning tips.  Even for us who have played forever but forget what that 3 against 4 feels like when we haven't played it in a while.

Piz

[BoliverAllmon]

don't be afraid works for 2 on 3.

boliver

[quantum]

Yes I've heard that one.  I ususally teach "Pass the golden butter" as a variant. 

2 against 3:
"Nice cup of tea"
"Manitoba"
"Saskatchewan"

[ahinton]

Yes I've heard that one.  I ususally teach "Pass the golden butter" as a variant. 

2 against 3:
"Nice cup of tea"
"Manitoba"
"Saskatchewan"

OK, but how does this kind of thing help with imparting more complex tuplet combinations, even when only two simultaneous ones are involved - take, for example, the 7 in the time of 6 near the close of Chopin's Nocturne in D flat?

Some years ago, when my string quintet was being recorded, I recall a jest floating about in which the name of the excellent second violinist - Marcus Barcham-Stevens - was being cited as a similar 3-in-the-time-of-4 mantra; I can't now remember who started that (it might even have been me in an inappropriately idle moment).

As a parting shot on this one, I have never quite managed to forget my old aural training master's advice; "never speak, write or think of such things as "4 against 3", otherwise they'll end up as 4 and 3 against you!".

Best,

Alistair

[pizno]

 Does anyone have one for 3 against 5?  By the way, I like the 'Don't be afraid' one.

[abell88]

"Manitoba"

But Manitoba is usually pronounced with four more or less equal syllables...I can't see Saskatchewan working either...I mean, you could, but I've never heard Saskatchewan pronounced that way.

[quantum]

But Manitoba is usually pronounced with four more or less equal syllables...I can't see Saskatchewan working either...I mean, you could, but I've never heard Saskatchewan pronounced that way.

These ones were taught by a professor at my university.  I still prefer the "Nice cup of tea" as the speach pattern is quite close to the rhythm. 

Hmm, yes I'd like to find one for 3 against 5.  It's a common Scriabin pattern.

[ahinton]

Hmm, yes I'd like to find one for 3 against 5.  It's a common Scriabin pattern.

Why can't ya find any phrase?...

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

ahahha, i will randomly learn chopin's 4th ballade in honour of your legendary genius

[pizno]

Or does this work?
'Please put your coat on the hook'
Or, 'Please play the notes on the page'

Excuse my slowness, but is that 'Together, left right left, left right left?

[fuel925]

Can someone please explain this whole idea to me, from the beginning please. I am trying to learn the 4 against 3 and similar problems, and have never heard of this putting words to the rhythm thing before.

[donjuan]

Can someone please explain this whole idea to me, from the beginning please. I am trying to learn the 4 against 3 and similar problems, and have never heard of this putting words to the rhythm thing before.

yeah, what he said

I'm so confused..

[pizno]

Ok, you got your left hand doing 4 beats, you got your right hand doing 3, at the same time.  You see it in all sorts of music.  Try this with your hands on your desk and beat out the rhythms.  The first beat is always together, then the rest are not going to line up, so when you put them together there is a certain pattern that someone has changed into the pattern of a sentance.

So, when you say 'Pass the goll darn butter', our hands are tapping together on pass, then right left right left right, in much the rhythm of the sentence.  Try it over and over to get it.

To start really simply, you could also say 'alligator alligator aglligator alligator' for 4 sets of 4 16th notes.

Make sense?