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Topic: how to improve technique.  (Read 3404 times)

Offline japandude

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how to improve technique.
on: January 28, 2006, 02:43:14 AM
how do you guys work on your technique?  or what do you think is the most effective way of improving your technique?

Offline pies

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 03:24:13 AM
push ups

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #2 on: January 28, 2006, 05:22:56 AM
how does that improve your technique?

please elaborate. thanks

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #3 on: January 28, 2006, 06:55:55 AM
how do you guys work on your technique?  or what do you think is the most effective way of improving your technique?


Greetings.

It depends on what kind of technique, whether scales, arpeggios, trills, chords, broken chords, legato, staccato, etc. Each technique is of course practicing on its own. For example scales. Carefull and exactness of each finger, never forcing, correct hand position, etc. There are many books on technique, however it is essential to have a teacher, because no matter how explicitly the technique is described, it has to be shown, for example arpeggios and how each finger must be felt, wrist movements, individuality of fingers, etc. To improve technique one must get a teacher, that will also provide with books on certain types of technique whether scales, arpeggios, etc. Technique is also improved through pieces and etudes. Again a teacher guides to correct practice. If you have any questions about a specific technique, feel free to ask. Hope this helps :)

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #4 on: January 28, 2006, 06:59:48 AM
Sorry for another post, but an effective way to improve technique is to practice it correctly. Stating the obvious, but it is true. You can practice a specific excercise one way for a long time, thinking that you got it, but actually when it comes to practicing it correctly of differently to achieve for example clarity or speed, you learn that you haven't practiced correctly. That is why it is important to listen to the teacher's explanations carefully or write it down. Hope this helps. :)

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #5 on: January 28, 2006, 08:07:46 PM
thanks for some of the tips, debussy symbolism.

my main focus is clean, fast sclaes.  i am working on the brahms rhapsody op79 no1, and i've been working on the scales, but can't quite get it up to speed. 

and i also want to improve my overall dexterity because sometimes when i play fast passages, my fingers slip and the whole section becomes a mess. 

thanks for your help.

Offline Bob

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #6 on: January 28, 2006, 10:09:07 PM
I use a routine.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline ted

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #7 on: January 29, 2006, 04:09:06 AM
My practice clavier, used with discretion, has provided me with all the purely technical help I have ever needed for my musical purposes.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 04:25:26 AM
thanks for some of the tips, debussy symbolism.

my main focus is clean, fast sclaes.  i am working on the brahms rhapsody op79 no1, and i've been working on the scales, but can't quite get it up to speed. 

and i also want to improve my overall dexterity because sometimes when i play fast passages, my fingers slip and the whole section becomes a mess. 

thanks for your help.

Even though I haven't yet played this piece, I can already say that practicing the scales and scales in general must be slow and precise. There is an excersize for scales which improves touch and speed. For example the C major scale. Each hand will repeat notes C and D four times, raising the fingers to appropriate heights(to get clarity) and then to D and E. Practicing slow then speeding up. This also applies to arpeggios and also arreas when one needs to carry over the thumb(scales and arpeggios). Practicing scales with each finger raised for precision and clarity slowly. When playing fast you won't need to raise your fingers, but will still have the clarity. It works very well. Finger slippin is usually because of lack of precision so by practicing carefully can one attain clean passages in scales and arpeggios. Hope this helps. :)

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #9 on: January 29, 2006, 08:03:33 AM
thanks for your help, you guys.

i'll try them out tomorrow and let you know!

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 06:59:08 AM
i think im improving little by little. thanks.

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #11 on: February 01, 2006, 07:14:10 AM
more help is welcome  :) ;D
the more, the better!

Offline lufia

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 09:12:26 AM
When playing difficult fast passges play them in different ryhthms. same goes with scales. Like 1-23-1-23-1-23-1-23.

1= crotchet 23= 2 semi-crochet. Work ur muscle
musicality

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 06:11:31 PM
I recently read an article that talked about fast scale passages. play them first as quarter notes, then 8ths, then triplets then, 16ths, the groups of five and so on. helps you learn all the notes.

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #14 on: February 03, 2006, 04:54:31 AM
cool thanks!
any etude recommendations?

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 07:38:28 AM
cool thanks!
any etude recommendations?

I highly recomend Czerny etudes. Every one of them. You haven't yet specified your current technical level so I am going to say Czerny. Chopin's etudes also help out tremendously I am sure. I am learning the first one from the first book and must say that it does wonders to arpeggio technique, hand stretching of fingers and speed. It is a wounderfull etude. :) Specify your level of technique, but otherwise Czerny. There are more of course. Hope this helps. :)

Offline brewtality

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 11:28:54 AM
Dohnanyi.

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 09:25:37 PM
Liszt excersizes are genius.

I don't care what anyone says.  They are.  And he practiced them for 4 hours a day; no wonder.

Offline penguinlover

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #18 on: February 04, 2006, 06:48:26 AM
I also use Czerny excercises.  They are interesting, challenging, unlike Hanon.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #19 on: February 04, 2006, 01:41:39 PM
try brahms paganin variations for learning how to play thirds and sixths together.  i'm sure i gained some muscle (not that it's needed so much for other things) and the ability to actually play thirds together and evenly.

some go for chopin etudes.  i feel like a horse led to water on that one.

bach is great for sightreading.  chorales and such.

sometimes our hand technique can be ok but our pedal technique atrocious.  try listening to your pedalling and if the notes sound clean.  try to clean them up even more.  experiment with your foot (ankles may be sore for awhile) in attempting to make the pedalling as good as your hand/finger technique. 

make sure to warm up and even warm down!  don't just start right in on stuff without giving your fingers a few 'whatever' you use to warm-up.

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #20 on: February 05, 2006, 12:35:40 AM
Mozart's "Ah vous dirai-je maman" variations are excellent. I have already finished all of them, but all them need improvement still of course. They are awesome and very good for technique. :)

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #21 on: February 05, 2006, 12:38:03 AM
Specify your current level or pieces that you play so that we know what kind of technique to work on. :)

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #22 on: February 05, 2006, 03:04:11 AM
hey guys
thanks for your recommendations.  i'll try to purchase/download/etc those!

my current pieces:
bach prelude and fugue in b flat minor fromWTC1
beethoven sonata op53"waldstein" 1st movement(hopefully all movements soon)
brahms rhapsody in b minor
ravel le tombeau de couperin

on the side, im doing chopin concerto no.1 1st movement (for next year)

hope this gives you an idea.  thanks for all your help!

Offline debussy symbolism

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #23 on: February 05, 2006, 07:53:27 AM
my current pieces:
bach prelude and fugue in b flat minor fromWTC1
beethoven sonata op53"waldstein" 1st movement(hopefully all movements soon)
brahms rhapsody in b minor
ravel le tombeau de couperin

on the side, im doing chopin concerto no.1 1st movement (for next year)

hope this gives you an idea.  thanks for all your help!

That is really impressive. I think that your teacher should of course help you with technical material such as etudes.

Offline elevateme

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #24 on: February 09, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
you could just get tankard & harrison pianoforte technique on an hour a day...

...but that only works if you practice at least an hour a day...   its really really good tho, it says inside like "evgeny kissin uses this for warm up to chopin etude no1 op10" etc that kind of stuff
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

Offline sharon_f

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #25 on: February 10, 2006, 01:46:32 AM
my current pieces:
bach prelude and fugue in b flat minor fromWTC1
beethoven sonata op53"waldstein" 1st movement(hopefully all movements soon)
brahms rhapsody in b minor
ravel le tombeau de couperin

on the side, im doing chopin concerto no.1 1st movement (for next year)

I really do not mean this in a rude way and I hope you don't take offense, but if these are the pieces you are working on right now....why are you asking for tips on technique?  This is advanced, virtuoso repertoire. Things like fast, even, accurate scales shouldn't even be a consideration at this point in the game. You should have them down pat.
There are two means of refuge from the misery of life - music and cats.
Albert Schweitzer

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #26 on: February 10, 2006, 04:50:47 AM
for finger dexterity, I'd definitely say the Liszt excersizes and BACH BACH BACH.


Also, I know this sounds wierd, but when practicing slowly with much finger action, don't think of just a downwards motion; think of a bit of a forward motion as well.  I throw my fingers down and a bit forward, it gives me much more precision.

Offline japandude

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #27 on: February 10, 2006, 05:12:07 AM
I really do not mean this in a rude way and I hope you don't take offense, but if these are the pieces you are working on right now....why are you asking for tips on technique?  This is advanced, virtuoso repertoire. Things like fast, even, accurate scales shouldn't even be a consideration at this point in the game. You should have them down pat.

i want to perfect my technique.  also i'm trying to discover better ways of tackling difficult passages. 

also note all of these are work in progress.  so, they are not at the level where i can play it spectacularly.   for example, the two big fast scales of the brahms rhapsody, i cannot play as fast and clearly as the recordings.  sometimes, my scales become a little blurry, and i don't want that to happen. 

Offline bernhard

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Re: how to improve technique.
Reply #28 on: February 15, 2006, 02:47:45 AM
Have a look here: :P

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1918.msg15015.html#msg15015
(Thumb under/over – detailed explanation – Fosberry flop)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2024.msg16583.html#msg16583
(how to aim the pinky – using the arm to move the fingers)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2033.msg16635.html#msg16635
(finger strength)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2076.msg17157.html#msg17157
(Speed – the 3 most important factors)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2079.msg17335.html#msg17335
(Hand tension – not using fingers to play)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2106.msg17587.html#msg17587
(developing both hands equally – repertory - why the LH is generally weaker – website for left handed pianos)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2163.msg18345.html#msg18345
(Colour – it is all about overtones)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2359.msg20442.html#msg20442
(Fingering placement on the keys)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2230.msg20686.html#msg20686
(Octaves and fast octaves – excellent post by Robert Henry)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2477.msg21403.html#msg21403
(Double thirds – the movement)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2502.msg21594.html#msg21594
(Independence of the 3rd and 4thfinger – it is impossible, one should work towards the illusion of independence: it is all arm work)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2507.msg21688.html#msg21688
(Round fingers – the role of fingers)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2552.msg22037.html#msg22037
(Accuracy – causes for inaccuracy – One possible solution: repeated note-groups)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2581.msg22252.html#msg22252
(Question on piano height, octave playing, wrist movement, etc.).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2740.msg23635.html#msg23635
(Staccatto x light accents)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1808.msg23879.html#msg23879
(Ultra fast arpeggios – slow practice x slow motion practice – good post by Herve – Abby whiteside is also mentioned)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2814.msg24872.html#msg24872
(How a student’s physicality affects teaching – discussion on arm x fingers – moving from the centre: tantien and taichi – Seymour Fink gets discussed as well)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2809.msg25013.html#msg25013
(Body movement – piano playing and martial arts)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2948.msg25927.html#msg25927
(Czerny x Scarlatti to acquire technique – Ted gives an excellent contribution)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2973.msg25970.html#msg25970
(How to create a cantabile effect – several approaches: creating a mental image, outlining, the three basic ways to bring out a melody)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3036.msg26638.html#msg26638
(trills and melody in the same hand)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3100.msg27113.html#msg27113
(thumb over – hand displacement – practising with awareness – awareness is not thinking – learning by imitation)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3530.msg31559.html#msg31559
(how to bring out a melody – 3 different ways – Importance of a mental representation: hear in your mind and the fingers will comply)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3726.msg33453.html#msg33453
(playing with curved fingers – worry less about movement and more about sound)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3987.msg36197.html#msg36197
(etudes and alternatives to them)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4082.msg37362.html#msg37362
(one cannot learn technique in a vacuum. At the same time one cannot simply play pieces – comparison with tennis)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4182.msg38775.html#msg38775
(Hanon: pros and cons – Robert Henry’s opinion)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4164.msg39149.html#msg39149
(CC Chang and relaxation for playing fast passages)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4282.msg39831.html#msg39831
(How to increase speed: slowly using metronome x fast with chord attack – juggling and skiping rope as examples)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4144.msg40259.html#msg40259
(improving speed of LH – move the whole LH not only fingers)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4385.msg41226.html#msg41226
(technique is personal and relative to the piece – Fosberry flop – the best books on technique)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4734.msg44770.html#msg44770
(how to acquire virtuoso technique – aiming at 100 pieces in five years)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4880.msg46339.html#msg46339
(definition of technique: quote from Fink, Sandor and Pires – Example of the A-E-A arpeggio)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4887.msg47334.html#msg47334
(more on Hanon)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5034.msg47829.html#msg47829
(The finger strength controversy – some excellent posts by xvimbi)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – why technique cannot be isolated from music)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5375.msg51272.html#msg51272
(Defending technicalexercises – two different philosophies regarding exercises – chopstick analogy)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7226.msg72166.html#msg72166
(Thumb over is a misnomer: it consists of co-ordinating four separate movements).

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7887.msg79326.html#msg79326
(why the lifting of the 4th finger is a non-problem)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7682.msg77042.html#msg77042
(hand independence: how to create a cue system and what is hand memory).

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8335.msg84684.html#msg84684
(circular movements to avoid co-contraction)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8322.msg84686.html#msg84686
(speed and muscle tension – 3 important components of speed playing)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7175.msg114163.html#msg114163
(wrist action – the movements that should be avoided when playing and the movements that should be used).

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11179.msg117263.html#msg117263
(extensive list of technical exercises and etudes)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8112.msg113575.html#msg113575
(Scarlatti x czerny to acquire technique – quotes by Sankey and Kirkpatrick)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,13208.msg143740.html#msg143740
(an account on how Cramer’s technique deteriorated with age)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time – or not -  summary of arguments and many relevant links)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.


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