When your favorite composer dissapoints...

[ahmedito]

Here's a question.
When asked about your favorite composition for the piano or your favorite composer, there are so many that it is a really hard question to answer, but... can you remember specific moments of piano music that are really REALLY bad music. That you listen to them and think, OH MY GOD!, did he compose that?!
I used to like that composer so much, and he had to go and compose something that bad!!!!
anyway, here are some examples that come to my mind:
Of course, some of them are student pieces or stuff like that, but even so...

Grieg--Vals Melancolique
Beethoven--G major Sonata and his early variations
Mendhelsson-- Some of his songs without words are completely nauseating.
Mozart--Fugue in C major.
Liszt--Need I Start With Liszt?, Id never finish...
Debussy--Piece de concours

Well, Im sure you can come up with plenty more.

[allchopin]

Are you talking about Beethoven's Sonata #25 Op. 79?  That one is particularly excellent in my book.  How are you thinking a piece is bad?  It just sounds bad, is theoretically bad, or it doesnt match the composer's style?

I have a few that I dislike:
Chopin - Preludes #2,5,14,22
Mozart - Sonata in A mvmt. 2
Liszt - Pag. Etude #2, Trans. Etudes #1,7
Bach - Too many to list
Rachmaninoff - Russian Rhapsody for 2 pianos
Debussy - Estampes #3 (borderline)

[rachfan]

Generally, I think the composing muse inspires composers more on some days than others.  That makes for some variability in output.  But then again, why should we be surprised?  How often have you liked reading a certain author only to be greatly disappointed by one of his other books?  Or have you ever been in an art museum and been enthralled by a painting by your favorite artist only to see another work of his that left you cold?  

Another factor is that as a composer, artist, or author ages, he or she might enter different stages of output, such that what used to be considered "characteristic" is no longer so.  Look at the difference between Liszt's, Beethoven's, or Scriabin's early versus late works.  Consider Picasso's representational, blue, and cubism paintings.  And what about the stark difference between the poet Walter Benton's erotic This is My Beloved and his bleak Never a Greater Need?  Time, places, circumstances, outlook, focus and use of media all change.

So it's true that quality and appeal may vary.  But if a composer were to spend a lifetime being consistent and predictable, I bet we would soon become bored too.

[ahmedito]

I just ment music that you hate, even though it was composed by a composer you consider great.
By the way, the third estampe is pretty awful too...

[rachfan]

Well, I certainly knew what you meant.  I do hate all of Liszt's and Scriabin's "late works", but it does not at all lower my esteem for them as composers, since I enjoy their earlier works all the more.  Do you happen to know a composer that you enjoy who is or was 100% consistent and never wrote a single dud?  If you do, I'd sure like to know who.

[rachfan]

Well, I certainly knew what you meant.  I do dislike all of Liszt's and Scriabin's "late works", but it does not at all lower my esteem for them as composers, since I enjoy their earlier works all the more.  Have you found a composer that you enjoy who is or was 100% consistent and never wrote a single dud?  If you do, I'd sure like to know who!  I just accept the bad along with the good.  That's a great argument, by the way, for not aspiring to learn the "complete piano works" of any composer (as much as that is in style now among recording artists).  Why take time to learn and perfect duds in the repertoire, when you could instead concentrate on pieces that you consider to be the composer's best output?  Life is too short!

Also, much of this is purely subjective.  While you dislike Jardins sous la pluie from Estampes, some of us think it's a fine piece, for example.  So much lies in the eye of the beholder, or more accurately, the ear of the listener.  

[thracozaag]

Well, I certainly knew what you meant.  I do dislike all of Liszt's and Scriabin's "late works

 focus, man.

[ahmedito]

Ah.... that shows me not to talk without being sure what I m saying.
The Debussy piece I hate, even though others love it is PAGODEs.... my bad.

[ravel]

pagodes is probably my favourite debussy piano piece, even though there are so many favourites , but i think that if i was to pick one, i would  choose pagodes, its absolutely fantastic, one of the most exotic pieces that exist in classical music , i can listen to it 32104823049283049823049 times in a one go  
and infact the whole of estampes is amazinf,
the third estampes is amazinggggggggggggg to the core,  maybe u people have heard  bad interpretation,
argerich played it too fast in her live recording,  and so does weissenberg, doesnt do justice to that particular estampes,

[ahmedito]

I dont want to get into an argument.
My dislike of pagodes is a personal esthetic opinion. Im not saying its badly composed or anything like that... I just hate it for no reason.
And I like Scriabins late piano works very much. His sonatas after and including white mass and balck mass are some of my favorite piano music out there. Liszts late piano stuff is also stuff that I love. Its almost impresionistic and gives us deeper insight into Liszts personality than anything else he might have written earlier.
Of course thats onluy my opinion.

[johnreef]

Schubert's D major sonata (someone please explain to me what's great about it!!!!!)
Brahms Variations on an Original Theme and on a Hungarian Theme (I find these a bit tedious, in contrast to his other variation works)
Just one chopin mazurka, opus number is in the 50's...in C major....can't remember the exact number. Annoying melody.
Schumann's Romance in F# (but I know I'm crazy since everyone loves this piece, right.)
Schubert Notturno in Eb for piano trio (see comment for above) -- I think the problem is a general dislike for melodies too closely centered on the third scale degree .... but I know that sounds silly.

[pianojems]

I play all of the Estampes and I think Pagodes is beautiful and has an oriental feel. But the piece that is frustrating to play is the 2nd Soiree dans Gredade

[rachfan]

"Soiree dans Grenade" has always been one of my favorite pieces to play--it's highly atmospheric and programmatic in an impressionistic way.  It cleverly captures the evening party  both from a distance and in the midst of it, and luxuriates in the sinuous habanera rhythm.  Who could ask for more?  Many feel that Debussy's "Soiree" and Copland's "El Salon Mexico" rank at the height of Spanish music, although neither composer, obviously, was Spanish.  That's quite a distinction to hold!  

[eddie92099]

Many feel that Debussy's "Soiree" and Copland's "El Salon Mexico" rank at the height of Spanish music, although neither composer, obviously, was Spanish.  That's quite a distinction to hold!  

And Ravel perhaps?
Ed

[rachfan]

And Ravel!

[eddie92099]

And Ravel!

,
Ed

[ravel]

definitely ravel
ravel

umm, soirre da granade, ( pardon my spelling) is absolutely fantastic,
true, taht debussy and ravel  have composed some of the best spanish music ever, like debussy s iberia, ravels rhapsody espaniol, so muchh moreeeeeeee,
richter once said something like " i have found all i needed of spanish music in french music" something like that, basically he meant, debussy and ravel were more than enuff haha

[eddie92099]

I do still love Albeniz, Granados and De Falla though!
Ed

[rachfan]

I've always thought that de Falla's "Nights in the Gardens of Spain" is an extraordinary piece.  It cannot really be categorized as a piano concerto (although some consider it as such).  It's actually a very long piano obligato that wends its way through the lush orchestration from start to finish.  If I recall correctly, Rubinstein premiered this piece in Buenas Aires.  The only other piece that parallels it in my mind is D'Indy's Symphony on a French Mountain Aire, another wonderful piece, although not a piano obligato; rather, the piano's role is one of piano concertante.  

[ravel]

oh i love albeniz, granados and falla too
i think i like falla s music the most, and like albeniz more than granados,
yup, falla s nights in the garden of spain , is an amazing piece, at so many timees, it seems as if debussy could have composed it,   specially love rubinsteins recording of  it. and it sounds not that complicated, or is it???
some pieces are much more complicated to play than they sound.

[ravel]

oh i love albeniz, granados and falla too
i think i like falla s music the most, and like albeniz more than granados,
yup, falla s nights in the garden of spain , is an amazing piece, at so many timees, it seems as if debussy could have composed it,   specially love rubinsteins recording of  it. and it sounds not that complicated, or is it?
some pieces are much more complicated to play than they sound.

[allchopin]

Ravel: Am I having deja vu?

Ravel: Am I having deja vu?

I recently found out that Chopin wrote a FUGUE in A minor- this completely blew my mind (mostly because I thought I knew every piece written by him)- a Fugue though...?  I listened to it and I'm not really sure what he was trying to do there; I can't decide if I liked it or not, but it did seem on the bad side.

[guven]

My favourite composers (Prokofiev,Shostakovich,Mahler) never dissapointed me thanks God.

[vsrinivasa]

For some reason, there are several composers I regard highly but who have put out works I absolutely detest.

Here are some examples:

Ravel: Alborada del Gracioso from Miroirs
Ravel: Toccata from Le Tombeau de Couperin
Debussy: Ce qu'a vu le vent d'ouest from Preludes
Chopin: Etude Op. 25 No. 9 "Butterfly"
Chopin: Fugue in A minor
Bach: Prelude and Fugue in C Major BWV 846 from the Well-Tempered Clavier
C.P.E. Bach: Solfeggietto
Scarlatti: Sonata in C Major Kp. 159
Scarlatti: Sonata in E Major Kp. 264
Scarlatti: Sonata in F Major Kp. 525
Scarlatti: Sonata in D Major Kp. 491
Beethoven: Sonata in E-flat Major, Op. 81a "Les Adieux"

As you can see, I like Scarlatti in general, but with 550 sonatas it's hard to like all of them.  

[david456103]

chopin-barcarolle
IMO, that is chopins worst piece by far.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Rachmaninoff prelude Op. 23 No. 2 and Op. 3 No. 2

[perprocrastinate]

Alkan- Most of Op. 35 (after experiencing Op. 39, this set of Etudes was pale in comparison)
Chopin- All the Ballades and Scherzi (with the exception of the Ballade in G minor and the Scherzo in B minor)
Liszt- Sonata in B minor
Ravel- Nos. 1, 2, and 5 from Miroirs

[emrysmerlin]

Liszt's b minor sonata
intro of the Alkan concerto
Chopin's sonatas
Fugue of hammerklavier
Finale of Alkan's symphony for solo piano
Some of the preludes and fugues from WTC book 2

[thesuineg]

I agree.....chopin's barcarolle isn't the best thing out there.
Theres one nocturne i dislike i forgot :/
actually alot of chopin's stuff seems kinda..."average"
he's great and all, in fact i love his ballades and 1st scherzo, but everything else is average, they show that obviously he had inspiration, alot of talent, but thats it.

Why would you post scarlatti. I dislike pretty much everything by him.

Though I have a general dislike towards liszt, I love his last 5 or so transcandental etudes. Besides the 4th one though, the rest are all disappointing

[emrysmerlin]

actually alot of chopin's stuff seems kinda..."average"

As Robert Schumann has put it...mannered.

Why would you post scarlatti. I dislike pretty much everything by him.

We each have our own interests, so each to their own...

[Derek]

Bach's fantasia in A minor, bwv 922. It's so...odd. It's ridiculously repetitive. It's like Bach took a better composition and stripped away all variation and interest and left nothing but the chord changes. Which are cool but man, its so repetitive. I don't like it very much at all. bwv 922.

[redrobin62]

Rossini - Peches de vieillesse, Vols. 1 - 9. They're really just exercises and some are incomplete; still, some of them are uncomfortable to bear, kinda like clanging and banging on the keys. Interspersed throughout the set are a few admirable bits, but to sit through the pedantic stuff is torture.