counting problem

[cowgirl]

I have a big problem with counting!!!  When I play my music I can hear the beat and playy as if I was counting,  but as soon as I start counting I mess up.  Do you guys have any suggestions?  Thanks for your help!

cowgirl

[pianogrl815]

I have the exact same problem! I just had to figure it out- my teacher was freaking out because he didnt know I was so bad at it. Just write down the counts on the music.

[ted]

If you can play in time I do not see the point in counting at all; or am I missing something ?

[cowgirl]

well if your teacher wants you to count out loud what do you do?

cowgirl

[_tyro]

have you tried a metronome?

[leahcim]

well if your teacher wants you to count out loud what do you do?

I'd re-assess whether you're playing in time.

If you are, then as Ted says, there's probably not a great deal of point, but if your teacher is asking to you count it might suggest that they don't think you are.

[cowgirl]

I do play in time.  I have a lot of friends that hear me play and (my teachers)say I am doing the right coutning.  My teachers just want me to say it out loud. 
 

cowgirl

[zheer]

I do play in time.  I have a lot of friends that hear me play and (my teachers)say I am doing the right coutning.  My teachers just want me to say it out loud. 
 

cowgirl

   
  You know, it might help, because today i was polishing Chopins Etude op 25/1 for an audition soon. The Etude has 4 beats in a bar, and i found that singing 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 out loud at the same time as playing helped me to play this Etude correctly for the first time. I think conducters do it, and so does Alfred Brendle. With this Etude i have had problem with the melody, i would add extra beats in some bars. Therfore counting out loud in a singing way made me realize haw the melody does not fit smoothly with the 4 crotchet beats to a bar time signature. TRy it.

[cowgirl]

thanks!  I will try it and let you know.

cowgirl

[casparma]

I wonder how pianists count while play very fast music score like Chopin - Etude in C Minor, Op 10, No 12.


I only count when I am playing slow passage/music....

For very fast passage/music, I just use metronome to help me feel the shortest interval between the shortest notes, and to get the feeling of interval of different length of note. Then, when I grasp the rhythm and its speed, I stop imidiately using the metronome.

[zheer]

I wonder how pianists count while play very fast music score like Chopin - Etude in C Minor, Op 10, No 12.

   Good point, the thing is i find some pieces, for example Chopin etude op10/4 have a obvious beat, if you look at the notes,you find the the music compliments the beat. Unlike
op25/1 where its not so obvious therefore necessary to count, the same is true for op10/12 it is important to count out loud at first, because the rythm is complex. This can be done at a fast tempo, i guess.

[bernhard]

Personally I never count, and have never in the past counted. Most of my students don´t count either. When I first come across it, I found it to be a most intriguing (bordering on the bizarre) practice.

However, as a teacher I did come across a number of students which had no sense of pulse at all. They would clap the rhythm, not the pulse. In such cases, I found that counting (and clapping and plying with the metronome and practicing pieces where the pulse and the rhythm were the same to start with) were a great help. So, counting may have its place as a preliminary stage for people who do not have an intuition for pulse. Nevertheless it is a stage, a crutch that however useful should be discarded as soon as possible.

Now, some teachers –unlike me who never counted – may have spent their childhood counting; or they may have gone through a pedagogy course where counting was deemed of paramount importance. Such conditionings may be difficult to overcome. For instance, some teachers are completely crazy about the French method of counting (Ta – te etc.) and you may spend a couple of years being introduced to the intricacies of the method and developing the complex memory co-ordination to master it. And when you do, you realize that it is not something you really need.

Do ask (nicely of course) your teacher what is the point of it all. He may have a brilliant response (in which case, please do tell us), or he may stare at you blankly (or repeat some refrain that does not make much sense), in which case he may just be conditioned. If he is truly good in all other areas, humour him and do as he says. Otherwise, try a different teacher.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cowgirl]

thanks guys for all your help.  i'll try you suggestion and see if they work.

cowgirl

[gruffalo]

thanks guys for all your help.  i'll try you suggestion and see if they work.

cowgirl

If you dont already know, bernhard is the wise one here in the forum. i would strongly listen to his advice.

In my opinion, yes there was a stage in my learning when i was younger where i would have tempo problems, but you dont need to count out loud to sort it. Try metronome practice. i think, like bernhard says, it should be discarded as soon as possible. i dont think it is healthy and you may become too reliant upon it. the same is with the metronome. it is great and, for me, a vital part to learning a piece, but it shouldnt be over used.

[zheer]

Counting like learning haw to ride a bike ( bernhard ) needs to be learnt , once learnt from a teacher, you can do it without the metronome or counting out loud,
However sometimes you need to make sure that you are playing correctly by counting.