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Topic: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?  (Read 16317 times)

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #100 on: March 01, 2007, 11:16:26 PM
Thanks nicco. Most the etudes chief difficulty is in making music.

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #101 on: March 01, 2007, 11:23:19 PM
I dunno when you can hear them., it's a bit of a dumb question.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=15397;sa=showPosts

IP check please; it suddenly and randomly seems like all of elevateme_returns' posts are just him back up franzliszt2, with a tenth of the original account's articulation.  So... why can't we hear your Chopin Etudes?  Don't have a microphone?  Piano out of tune?  :P


Are we? The topic title asks if the chopets cover "everything". Technique is not everything, and the chopets are just as much pieces pf music as they are etudes meant to develop technique. The two elements are connected to eachother, so you cant have awesome technique without ability to produce music.

Lol.  So tell me, what are all the kinds of musicality?  Because I thought that was a sort of inate, final thing; not something that can be broken down.  So... we take 10-3, that has lots of moisture, and there we go.  Now we just need to talk about the technical aspects, right?  Obviously, they aren't all-encompassing, because there aren't ninths :P

Also, I disagree with the last part of your post.  A computer can play a MIDI of Alkan Comme le Vent at 3:30 and still have absolutely no musical substance.  Now bare in mind, nowhere have I said that the Chopin Etudes should be played without musicality; please don't put words in my mouth, purposefully or otherwise ;)


I thought we already established that they didnt   they obviously dont. theres your answer.  also twenty-seven is one word.


Good to know about that twenty-seven thing.  Btw, what does "theres" mean?  :)

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #102 on: March 01, 2007, 11:26:24 PM
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=15397;sa=showPosts

IP check please; it suddenly and randomly seems like all of elevateme_returns' posts are just him back up franzliszt2, with a tenth of the original account's articulation.  So... why can't we hear your Chopin Etudes?  Don't have a microphone?  Piano out of tune?  :P


Lol.  So tell me, what are all the kinds of musicality?  Because I thought that was a sort of inate, final thing; not something that can be broken down.  So... we take 10-3, that has lots of moisture, and there we go.  Now we just need to talk about the technical aspects, right?  Obviously, they aren't all-encompassing, because there aren't ninths :P

Also, I disagree with the last part of your post.  A computer can play a MIDI of Alkan Comme le Vent at 3:30 and still have absolutely no musical substance.  Now bare in mind, nowhere have I said that the Chopin Etudes should be played without musicality; please don't put words in my mouth, purposefully or otherwise ;)


Good to know about that twenty-seven thing. Btw, what does "theres" mean? :)

it means there is. do you have some sort of problem?

and whats with this - "IP check please; it suddenly and randomly seems like all of elevateme_returns' posts are just him back up franzliszt2, with a tenth of the original account's articulation."
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #103 on: March 01, 2007, 11:27:34 PM
The only access to recording equiptment is in a studio, which would cost me £120 per hour. The only way I'll get it for free, is if I entering a competition. Plus I don't have anything to prove, I can play them, why should I record them? I'll just perform them when I feel happy. My piano lives miles away from me, and I'm not going home to record Chopin etudes, becasue that would also cost me a lot of money

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #104 on: March 01, 2007, 11:33:12 PM
please check the IP, im not really sure what youre saying but it sounds like you think franzliszt2 and I are the same person? forgive me if im wrong, im finding it difficult to understand. he lives in london and is in full time conservatoire education, im preparing for my GCSEs at a school in Newcastle-upon-tyne. do you think we are the same person?
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Offline soliloquy

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #105 on: March 01, 2007, 11:36:51 PM
it means there is. do you have some sort of problem?

OHHH you meant "there's".  Ok.

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #106 on: March 01, 2007, 11:38:37 PM
You never answered my question. How many Chopin etudes have you done? I won't actually respect your argument of "do they cover everything" unless you've actually done them.

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #107 on: March 01, 2007, 11:45:37 PM
You never answered my question.

Are you serious, sweetheart?  :'(  You should pay closer attention; I did indeed answer that question.  And you expect me to respect your opinion when you claim to be an expert on Xenakis but subsequently fail to say anything about him that comes even close to being coherent?

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #108 on: March 01, 2007, 11:46:47 PM
Haha I vil juz chill n vitnezz this CG 8).
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #109 on: March 01, 2007, 11:51:21 PM
I'm not an expert on xenakis. I have done a lot of work on his pieces, and do not like it.

You play 27? Well done, now stop going on about xenakis, I don't care enough about him to debate. Good for you, you know more about Xenakis than me,  great!! I'm sure many people do. But isn;t this a thread about Chopin etudes? Plus where is ur recording if thats so important?

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #110 on: March 01, 2007, 11:51:47 PM
OHHH you meant "there's".  Ok.

do you have any common sense? is it really that difficult to notice some sort of connection between "theres" and "there's"?
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #111 on: March 01, 2007, 11:53:08 PM
Haha I vil juz chill n vitnezz this CG 8).

great! do everyone a favour.
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Offline soliloquy

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #112 on: March 01, 2007, 11:57:56 PM
Haha I vil juz chill n vitnezz this CG 8).

Da CG zlaughtah?  Randomly i muzt inform u dat arguin wiz deze 2 idiotz is lyk playin tenniz againzt a brick wall: gettin rathah boring at a rathah fazt rate 8)



Quote
I'm not an expert on xenakis. I have done a lot of work on his pieces, and do not like it.

You play 27? Well done, now stop going on about xenakis, I don't care enough about him to debate. Good for you, you know more about Xenakis than me,  great!! I'm sure many people do. But isn;t this a thread about Chopin etudes? Plus where is ur recording if thats so important?

You sure thought you were an expert on Xenakis before I pointed out how many times you were wrong in so few sentences.  Did you not say this to me only a couple hours ago, where you tell me that you know more about Xenakis than almost everyone?


Quote
He has no influence!! He is just a mathsmatician! Who randomly blobbed a loads of theory's together!! Messian even refused him from his class. Nobody listens to Xenakis becasue he's crap!! And please don;t reply, you havn't listened to it enough, or you don;t understand it, or you you havn't analysed it, I've probley had more exposure to Xenakis than most people here

Let me save you the suspense while you strain your tiny brain to remember whether or not you said that and just go ahead and tell you that you did.


Quote
But isn;t this a thread about Chopin etudes? Plus where is ur recording if thats so important?

I'll post mine when you post yours :)



Quote
do you have any common sense? is it really that difficult to notice some sort of connection between "theres" and "there's"?

You're right elevateme_returns, it is incredibly asinine and childish to correct a tiny fragment of someone's grammar.


24 isnt a word. you cant even count the number of words in a question and you're calling him dumb??


lol

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #113 on: March 02, 2007, 12:03:29 AM
You're right elevateme_returns, it is incredibly asinine and childish to correct a tiny fragment of someone's grammar.

counting words isnt grammar.. youre digging yourself a hole here you know.
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #114 on: March 02, 2007, 12:09:10 AM
You sure thought you were an expert on Xenakis before I pointed out how many times you were wrong in so few sentences.  Did you not say this to me only a couple hours ago, where you tell me that you know more about Xenakis than almost everyone?

Let me save you the suspense while you strain your tiny brain to remember whether or not you said that and just go ahead and tell you that you did.

but if you strain YOUR tiny brain you will realise he actually says hes had more exposure to it than most here, ie he has heard more. nowhere does he say he knows more about Xenakis than almost everyone. so why are you making false accusations? ? ?
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #115 on: March 02, 2007, 12:11:26 AM
Da CG zlaughtah?  Randomly i muzt inform u dat arguin wiz deze 2 idiotz is lyk playin tenniz againzt a brick wall: gettin rathah boring at a rathah fazt rate 8)

and finally, if arguing with us is so boring - why do you do it? no ones asking you to talk such bollocks and if it's a bore to you then why bother?
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Offline jre58591

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #116 on: March 02, 2007, 12:21:21 AM
but if you strain YOUR tiny brain you will realise he actually says hes had more exposure to it than most here, ie he has heard more.

that i highly doubt.

nowhere does he say he knows more about Xenakis than almost everyone. so why are you making false accusations? ? ?

actually you can find this statement earlier in the thread.
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Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #117 on: March 02, 2007, 12:27:13 AM
My God, you are all insane.  :o

Can we try to get back on topic?

Phil

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #118 on: March 02, 2007, 12:28:37 AM
counting words isnt grammar.. youre digging yourself a hole here you know.

It's pedantry.  That was the point.  And yes, it absolutely IS grammar.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Apedantry
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Agrammar

ME digging a hole?  No sweetie, that'd be you.


Quote
but if you strain YOUR tiny brain you will realise he actually says hes had more exposure to it than most here, ie he has heard more. nowhere does he say he knows more about Xenakis than almost everyone. so why are you making false accusations? ? ?

For a moment I had forgotten how stupid people could be.  I literally was unaware that this level of complete lack of ability to comprehend anything whatsoever, no matter how simple it is or in how many different ways it is presented to the person, they still are completely unable to grasp the meaning of what the person is saying because they are so full of both themselves and full of enmity and desire to make the other person look stupid they simply overlook any and all logic.  You sir, are an absolute idiot.  LET ME *** QUOTE IT AGAIN, SHERLOCK HOLMES.  I will bold, underline, italic and raise in font size all of the parts you apparently overlooked.

Quote
And please don;t reply, you havn't listened to it enough, or


you don;t understand it, or you


you havn't analysed it,



I've probley had more exposure to Xenakis than most people here

Now either one of two things happened, and you're a retard either way we go, but I'll let you choose since I'm such a nice person.  Here are the only two half-logical reasons for you saying this there are:


a- you accidentally scrolled past the middle part of where I quoted him, because you are almost blind and have to have the font pulled up to 100, therefore it is technically possible to scroll past it.

b- you are SOOO stupid that you don't understand that what he said infers that he has thoroughly analyzed and studied the works and compositional techniques of Xenakis.


Which is it?


Quote
and finally, if arguing with us is so boring - why do you do it? no ones asking you to talk such bollocks and if it's a bore to you then why bother?

Because if there's a single thing I hate that little kids like you like to do on the internet, it's talk big about sh*t they don't know, and I am not gonna put up with it, especially if it concerns one of my favorite composers and is so disgustingly misguided.

Offline bflatminor24

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #119 on: March 02, 2007, 01:40:45 AM
yo, guys, nobody is talking about anything important.

do the chopin etudes cover every piano technique? i dont think so.

for one, it doesn't really cover octaves enough. there is one "octave" etude but it's not very difficult and doesn't practice octave jumps.

-Max
My favorite piano pieces - Liszt Sonata in B minor, Beethoven's Hammerklavier, Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, Alkan's Op. 39 Etudes, Scriabin's Sonata-Fantaisie, Godowsky's Passacaglia in B minor.

Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #120 on: March 02, 2007, 02:44:00 AM
Max, there are plenty of things they don't cover. The list of things, in fact, could go on and on about certain things not covered in the Chopets. That much, at least, was established before the thread was hijacked.

To be perfectly honest, one will probably NEVER find a single set of etudes that covers everything, simply because there is so much to cover. The Chopin Etudes are a revolutionary set in the history of technical and musical exercises, and, to clarify another argument previously in the topic, they are exactly that: a mixture of technical exercises and musical exercises. One cannot separate the two. They are BOTH. You can TREAT them as pure technical exercises, but I seriously doubt that anyone in their right mind would purposefully completely overlook the musical aspects of such masterpieces.

Even your beloved Op.10 No.2, Stevie, is about more than the raw speed at which you can churn out the fleeting notes. I will vouch for playing pieces at the fastest speed you can for three reasons: 1) to make performance at the proper tempo seem easier by proxy, 2) I suppose for strength of the fingers or wrist, as you said, or 3) SDC comedic genisu  8). But to PLAY these pieces that way, in performance, or gearing up for one, or for the sake of enjoyment, or basically for any other reason that requires showing what Chopin would have wanted out of the piece, seems somewhat wrong to me.

That said, I must confess that this thread, though bearing the title "Do the 24 Chopin Etudes Cover Everything?" is not as broad a subject as you have all let it be. Let us go back to Post #0:

Is studying the 24 Chopin Etudes of opus 10 and opus 25 a suitable replacement for more "traditional" exercises such as Hanon or Czerny?
Ed  

Simple question, simple answer: Yes. Of course, that may be biased by my previous negative experiences with Hanon and Czerny exercises, but since Chopin studies musical aspects (and in general are just more fun to play) I have to side with them.

Phil

Offline _____

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #121 on: March 02, 2007, 03:32:16 AM
Hahahaha, opus10no2, I like your style!

Offline cygnusdei

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #122 on: March 02, 2007, 03:47:46 AM
According to my Henle urtext, Op. 10 no. 2 is 144 quavers to the minute, which means a performance time of 1:22 not counting rubato.

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #123 on: March 02, 2007, 08:00:19 PM
I meant....Don't reply to me with the answer you don;t understand etc.... So shut your mouth please. Your the most pathetic guy ever, You've totally started being nasty to me, in the hope you can make me sound thick and you sound inteligent. So take the cock out your arse, and go learn to play the piano

Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #124 on: March 02, 2007, 08:27:21 PM
Your such an idiot also becasue I did not claim to know more about xenakis than anymore. I stated I knew enough about xenakis to have an opinion, which You don't seem to respect. I have had a lot of exposure to his music, and my source for saying Messian did not want to teach him, and in fact he didn't, he "guided" him, was from a person who was actually a friend of Messian's, and had this told to him by Messian. Who taught you about xenakis? Did you read a few books? I think that sources like Messians friends prove a lot stonger than books.

What has anything I've said got to do with the analysis of his pieces? I may not have a strong knowledge of him, because I don't care enough about him, so you are forcing arguments into Xenakis. I could easily perfect any post I make by using the internet, but I really don't care enough about him, or you to do so. Why do you insult the grammer people use? Because your brain is not good enough to offer any constructive argument so you go to pathetic insults of my spelling and grammer. I'm writing on a pianoforum, not a bloody english Exam!! So please, quit with the stupidness, you only show yourself to be an arogant arse.  Now have fun listening to Xenakis, I hope it makes you feel inteligent! Good day!

Offline jeremyjchilds

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #125 on: March 02, 2007, 08:49:50 PM
I think they cover everything concerning the romantic period. It doesent mean you can play a fugue and it doesent mean you can play Jazz.
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #126 on: March 02, 2007, 08:52:58 PM
Yes I agree. Playing Bach,or Mozart etc...is so different. The Chopin etudes are also only effective if they are practiced properly.

Offline bflatminor24

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #127 on: March 02, 2007, 09:10:48 PM
The Sorabji Transcendental Etudes cover everything :)

-Max
My favorite piano pieces - Liszt Sonata in B minor, Beethoven's Hammerklavier, Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, Alkan's Op. 39 Etudes, Scriabin's Sonata-Fantaisie, Godowsky's Passacaglia in B minor.

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #128 on: March 02, 2007, 09:13:55 PM
The Sorabji Transcendental Etudes cover everything :)

-Max

Sadly innefectively as etudes for mech.
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #129 on: March 02, 2007, 11:27:15 PM
that i highly doubt.
actually you can find this statement earlier in the thread.

show me. show me where he says he knows more about xenakis than almost everyone.
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Offline franzliszt2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #130 on: March 02, 2007, 11:31:36 PM
Yeh please do show me, otherwise Fukc off with you lies

Offline bflatminor24

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #131 on: March 02, 2007, 11:38:13 PM
inefeciblah blah as what? i can't even understand you, dude.

name something they don't cover.
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #132 on: March 02, 2007, 11:46:23 PM
It's pedantry.  That was the point.  And yes, it absolutely IS grammar.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Apedantry
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Agrammar

ME digging a hole?  No sweetie, that'd be you.


For a moment I had forgotten how stupid people could be.  I literally was unaware that this level of complete lack of ability to comprehend anything whatsoever, no matter how simple it is or in how many different ways it is presented to the person, they still are completely unable to grasp the meaning of what the person is saying because they are so full of both themselves and full of enmity and desire to make the other person look stupid they simply overlook any and all logic.  You sir, are an absolute idiot.  LET ME *** QUOTE IT AGAIN, SHERLOCK HOLMES.  I will bold, underline, italic and raise in font size all of the parts you apparently overlooked.

Quote from franzliszt2:
And please don;t reply, you havn't listened to it enough, or


you don;t understand it, or you


you havn't analysed it,



I've probley had more exposure to Xenakis than most people here.


Now either one of two things happened, and you're a retard either way we go, but I'll let you choose since I'm such a nice person.  Here are the only two half-logical reasons for you saying this there are:


a- you accidentally scrolled past the middle part of where I quoted him, because you are almost blind and have to have the font pulled up to 100, therefore it is technically possible to scroll past it.

b- you are SOOO stupid that you don't understand that what he said infers that he has thoroughly analyzed and studied the works and compositional techniques of Xenakis.


Which is it?


Because if there's a single thing I hate that little kids like you like to do on the internet, it's talk big about sh*t they don't know, and I am not gonna put up with it, especially if it concerns one of my favorite composers and is so disgustingly misguided.

dont call me "sweetie" please. haha you are getting so wound up about this. quite amusing for us though. i love arguing to prove a point, but if arguing with me is so boring for you, why are you underlining and making the font bigger and making it bold etc?    perhaps you misunderstood franzliszt2. what he actually said was

And please don;t reply, you havn't listened to it enough, or you don;t understand it, or you havn't analysed it, I've probley had more exposure to Xenakis than most people here

now, can you show me where exactly he says, as you are claming he does, "i know more about xenakis than almost everyone" ?  i think this is your own personal interpretation of his words. and as nice a person you claim to be, i think unfortuantely youre wrong about what he says.

if you still don't believe me, why don't we ask the person who actually made the quote what he really meant.

so franz, when you said all that, were you meaning to say? "i know more about xenakis than almost everyone here" ? or is soliloquy just stupid?

oh and btw, even a dumbass knows that counting is NOT grammar. the google links proved nothing, all they do is give definitions of grammar and pedantry
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #133 on: March 03, 2007, 12:01:57 AM
inefeciblah blah as what? i can't even understand you, dude.

name something they don't cover.

bebungs? LH thirds? i dont know. there must be something though.
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Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #134 on: March 03, 2007, 12:30:28 AM
Your such an idiot also becasue I did not claim to know more about xenakis than anymore. I stated I knew enough about xenakis to have an opinion, which You don't seem to respect. I have had a lot of exposure to his music, and my source for saying Messian did not want to teach him, and in fact he didn't, he "guided" him, was from a person who was actually a friend of Messian's, and had this told to him by Messian. Who taught you about xenakis? Did you read a few books? I think that sources like Messians friends prove a lot stonger than books.

What has anything I've said got to do with the analysis of his pieces? I may not have a strong knowledge of him, because I don't care enough about him, so you are forcing arguments into Xenakis. I could easily perfect any post I make by using the internet, but I really don't care enough about him, or you to do so. Why do you insult the grammer people use? Because your brain is not good enough to offer any constructive argument so you go to pathetic insults of my spelling and grammer. I'm writing on a pianoforum, not a bloody english Exam!! So please, quit with the stupidness, you only show yourself to be an arogant arse. Now have fun listening to Xenakis, I hope it makes you feel inteligent! Good day!

dont call me "sweetie" please. haha you are getting so wound up about this. quite amusing for us though. i love arguing to prove a point, but if arguing with me is so boring for you, why are you underlining and making the font bigger and making it bold etc?    perhaps you misunderstood franzliszt2. what he actually said was

And please don;t reply, you havn't listened to it enough, or you don;t understand it, or you havn't analysed it, I've probley had more exposure to Xenakis than most people here

now, can you show me where exactly he says, as you are claming he does, "i know more about xenakis than almost everyone" ?  i think this is your own personal interpretation of his words. and as nice a person you claim to be, i think unfortuantely youre wrong about what he says.

if you still don't believe me, why don't we ask the person who actually made the quote what he really meant.

so franz, when you said all that, were you meaning to say? "i know more about xenakis than almost everyone here" ? or is soliloquy just stupid?

oh and btw, even a dumbass knows that counting is NOT grammar. the google links proved nothing, all they do is give definitions of grammar and pedantry

Is this even worth it? Does anybody actually care except for the three of you?

Is it possible for you all to stop bitching and maybe talk about something relevant?

Phil

Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #135 on: March 03, 2007, 12:32:16 AM
Or, if you can't resist the temptation to fight, go to the chatroom or IM each other or something. The rest of us really don't need to see a pissing contest.

Phil

Offline jre58591

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #136 on: March 03, 2007, 12:56:00 AM
for the record, its not "messian", its "messiaen". that says a lot right there.

im done with this argument.
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Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #137 on: March 03, 2007, 01:04:04 AM
Is this even worth it? Does anybody actually care except for the three of you?

Is it possible for you all to stop bitching and maybe talk about something relevant?

Phil

no youre right its not worth it. sorry. what else relevant is there to talk about? we have already established that the etudes do not cover everything. tell me what you wish to talk about and i will do my best.
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Offline pianowelsh

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #138 on: March 03, 2007, 02:05:49 AM
My goodness This is looking like the Jerry Springer show!!  Just to clarify a point. The 6/7 word title asks if the Chopin etudes cover everything.  It dosent say technically or musically it says 'everything' Which I would take to mean technically and musically. SO the clear answer is NO - I dont know any single work cyclical or otherwise which does.  The op25 are arguably (anything is arguable on this forum!) more musical in content than the op10 which are generally more overt in the techncial demands. Frankly what Sorabji or Xenakis have to do with this post I dont see. Start a new thread if you want to discuss those.   

PS - if anyone knows of Dubovsky's version of the chopin etudes Id love to hear from them in the 'new' thread!!! - or actually anything about Dubovsky

Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #139 on: March 03, 2007, 04:27:51 AM
no youre right its not worth it. sorry. what else relevant is there to talk about? we have already established that the etudes do not cover everything. tell me what you wish to talk about and i will do my best.

There was a second question in the topic starter's post:

 
Is studying the 24 Chopin Etudes of opus 10 and opus 25 a suitable replacement for more "traditional" exercises such as Hanon or Czerny?
Ed 



Discuss.

Phil

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #140 on: March 03, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
inefeciblah blah as what? i can't even understand you, dude.

name something they don't cover.

That's not the point, they cover an extreme amount , obviously, but as I previously stated in this thread - there is an effective formulae for making the most useful etudes, Sorabji's - on the whole - don't follow this.

The figuration must be constant and perpetual, and last a good couple of minutes, like the typical Chopin etude.

Plus, on a subjective matter - they don't sound too good.
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Offline mephisto

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #141 on: March 03, 2007, 10:54:08 AM
That's not the point, they cover an extreme amount , obviously, but as I previously stated in this thread - there is an effective formulae for making the most useful etudes, Sorabji's - on the whole - don't follow this.

The figuration must be constant and perpetual, and last a good couple of minutes, like the typical Chopin etude.


Take no8 for instance(an etude in thirds), first the right hand is playing thirds while the left hand is playing single notes. Later on the left hand is playing thirds and the right hand is playing single notes. Than both hands play thirds until the end. This seams like a typical etude, doesn't it?

I admit not having heard how this piece actually sound, and I haven't studied it for more than a minute. I will buy the Ullén CD soon.

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #142 on: March 03, 2007, 02:41:10 PM
There was a second question in the topic starter's post:

 
Discuss.

Phil

yes the chopin etudes are definately a suitable replacement for hanon czerny tankard etc, although they do not cover every technical aspect.

happy?
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Offline dnephi

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #143 on: March 03, 2007, 03:12:12 PM
I will possibly revamp this discussion with something I found extraordinary.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,23761.0.html

I made an acronym for what everyone's basic tech base should be:
TOADS.
Trills.
Octaves
Arpeggios
Double Notes
Scales.

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Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #144 on: March 03, 2007, 03:14:55 PM
yes the chopin etudes are definately a suitable replacement for hanon czerny tankard etc, although they do not cover every technical aspect.

happy?

Yes.

Phil

Offline elevateme_returns

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #145 on: March 04, 2007, 09:37:05 PM
is that all you wanted? so am i allowed to carry on bitching?
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Offline phil13

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #146 on: March 04, 2007, 10:09:11 PM
Only if it's relevant to the topic.  ;D

Phil

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #147 on: March 11, 2007, 08:52:27 AM
I can't really speak with the necessary expertise as I've only played a third of the Chopin Etudes.
However, judging from this limited experience, I found that they immensly increase command of the keybord and bravura, but are not useful for aspects of micro-phrasing so important in Bach, Mozart, Beethoven.

More specifically, I notice the benefit of the Chopin Etudes as soon as the music increases in speed and larger chunks of notes have to be mastered by both hands.

However, take something like the first variation of Mozart's Twinkle, Twinkle (KV 265). To beautifully phrase this music (think of Haskil) poses formidable challenges -- challenges to which the Chopin Etudes do not prepare you.
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Offline virtuosic1

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #148 on: March 21, 2007, 03:59:41 AM
Is studying the 24 Chopin Etudes of opus 10 and opus 25 a suitable replacement for more "traditional" exercises such as Hanon or Czerny?
Ed  

Yes, especially if played in every key. Also with the right hand parts played in unison, in the left hand, in both similar and contrary motion.

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Do the 24 Chopin Etudes cover everything?
Reply #149 on: March 21, 2007, 04:29:43 AM
Yes, especially if played in every key. Also with the right hand parts played in unison, in the left hand, in both similar and contrary motion.

Well, for the left hand, the Wuhrer versions would suffice, the contrary motion you mention means utilizing the 'mirror' technique? Centralised around D or Aflat.
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