Chopin Piano Sonatas

[elevateme]

ok which is the best chopin sonata Bb min or B min?

i think....    ...b min

[kreso]

B minor op.58 is much more deep, and fresh, with powerfull ending and with lot of virtuosity, althaught I like B flat minor sonata also very, very much.
Let's just not forget that Chopin wrote Sonata in c-minor which is also qiute ineteresting, but it's not on the same leve as those two, it's I think one of his early works..

[maxy]

#2 muuuuuuuuch better than #1, #3 goes quite further than #2.  I am not willing to say it's a better piece, but there is a clear evolution between 2 and 3.

The same could be said between the first 3 ballades and the 4th, the first 3 Scherzi and the 4th, the polonaise-fantaisie and the rest of the polonaise.

[panic]

I choose 2 because I think it's more coherent and well-balanced as a whole - all four movements are strong. IMO 3 only gets good when you hit the Largo movement (after which it is REALLY good); the first movement is too amorphous in my mind to the extent of being a bit boring, and the scherzo is one of the dumbest and most cliche things I've ever heard from Chopin and contributes very little to the sonata.

[quantum]

Well the Bb min is more revolutionary towards piano sonata form, while the B min seems to is infused with so much inner meaning. 

[contrapunctus]

The third piano sonata is the only piece by Chopin Gould recorded. I would have to say it is one of his greatest recordings.

[franzliszt2]

I prefer B minor. To be honest i don't like Bb minor that much.I like bits of it, like the scherzo, and 1st mvt, but not the other two. B minor is an amazing piece throughout.

[superstition2]

I think the B minor sonata is a bit stilted... repetative... wordy.

The Bb sonata is genius. The B minor sonata is just excellent.

These sonatas are the inverse of Rachmaninov's pattern. The first Rachmaninov sonata, like Chopin's B minor, is excellent, but a bit stilted, repetative, and wordy. It doesn't have the emotion of the 2nd (uncut), which coincidentally is also in Bb minor.

Chopin's B minor sonata and Rachmaninov's D minor are both wonderful pieces, but they are not as good as their sisters. Both are wordy, particularly in the final movement. Both are drier.

[quantum]

The third piano sonata is the only piece by Chopin Gould recorded. I would have to say it is one of his greatest recordings.

I wound't consider it one of the most enjoyable things I've heard from Gould but

... he definatly plays it uniquely

[panic]

That's an interesting point you bring up, superstition, about Rachmaninoff's sonatas. I personally prefer the D minor because it's more expansive and epic, and because it takes the three-movement sonata form to twice the length that one would normally be accustomed to hearing yet is still successful. The 40-minute sonata that works is a rarity - the Hammerklavier and a couple of Schubert's are the only ones I can think of other than Rach 1 (not to mention that the latter is three movements while the others are four, which makes it more remarkable - the next longest three-movement sonata to Rach 1 that works is what, the Appassionata at 25 minutes?). Played poignantly and not stagnantly, Rach 1 can really work, even (especially) in the 17-minute Allegro molto. When I hear Rach 2, moreover, I hear a piece that's very often trying to be its older brother, written in a language that sometimes misses the romanticism and expansiveness of 1907 and leans more towards the sporadic style of late Rachmaninoff. Particularly in the cut version, it sounds written for a shorter attention span.

The comparison between Chopin's and Rachmaninoff's sonatas is tricky. Chopin 2 was written in what I consider his prime, when he wrote pieces such as Ballade 2 that were focused, to the point, and never wandered. In later opuses, I daresay it sounds like Chopin stopped planning his pieces as much. Ballade 3 sounds like he stopped working after the first 2 1/2 pages and picked it up again a while later. Scherzo 4, the least pleasant mature Chopin piece to listen to for me, sounds as though he came up with a theme and tried to distribute it across 12 minutes instead of planning more in depth. Even Ballade 4 meanders a bit in the middle before finally getting down to it in the last few pages. And the first movement of Sonata 3 could have been cut - it wanders too much in my opinion. I don't know what it was, but something about Chopin's late style causes his longer pieces to be less interesting to listen to for me, perhaps more cerebral and intellectual but less captivating, almost like Rachmaninoff becoming Medtner.

[superstition2]

When I hear Rach 2, moreover, I hear a piece that's very often trying to be its older brother, written in a language that sometimes misses the romanticism and expansiveness of 1907 and leans more towards the sporadic style of late Rachmaninoff. Particularly in the cut version, it sounds written for a shorter attention span.

The 2nd is should not be hampered by the inferior cut version when one is looking for the best Rachmaninov sonata. Even though Horowitz played his version of the cut-up piece brilliantly in 1968, it's not as good as the original.

Do you have a recommended performance of the 1st? I have Biret, and have heard Jung Im and one other pianist whose name I can't recall.

I actually love the "episodic" late Rachmaninov as found in his original and 1927 versions of the 4th concerto. It's my favorite Rachmaninov concerto. I used to love the final revision, but I can barely listen to it now. The anger and confusion I used to like in the piece stems primarily from the cuts and changes. The original and 1927 versions show a piece of exquisite, and delicate, beauty.

But, I think the 2nd sonata is quite concentrated and linear. It's not as wordy as the 1st, which was written to build its ideas very slowly. The effect is quite unique, but I prefer the intensity of the 2nd. Have you heard Ashkenazy's?

The Rachmaninov 1st sonata deserves more attention than it gets, but so does the unrevised 2nd. I've heard too many pianists butcher it (cut or uncut), though.

[superstition2]

(accidental duplicate)