Why is it important to "let your fingers do the work" while using pedal?

[getcool]

The part of this thread's subject line that is in quotes is something that my teacher has said to me a couple of times.  "Let your fingers do the work."

Specifically, he means that when I am using sustain pedal in a piece, to not allow my fingers to "let up" from the keys too early; that is, to try to play the piece as if I wasn't using pedal at all, so that my fingers are essentially on the keys for as long as possible and I am not allowing the pedal to "do the work."

I hope this makes sense.  For example, if a piece calls for a legato arpeggiation of a C major chord (let's just simply say one octave, C-E-G-C, all in one hand), and has a pedal marking spanning the arpeggiation, I can either (1) play the arpeggiation in a legato manner, keeping my fingers on each key for as long as possible before moving to the next, or (2) just tap each key and quickly lift my fingers after each note.  Using the pedal, each method could be made to sound identical...

This is a very simplistic example, but I hope it illustrates what I am getting at.  I can certainly understand how it is important to "let my fingers do the work" in some circumstances--for example, if I need to pedal something in the left hand while keeping a melody in the right hand crisp and clean--but in others, I fail to see why it matters at all how you strike the notes if the pedal will ultimately make the passage sound the same, no matter how you do it.

I'm not trying to voice an opinion here; I just want to understand why this is a good practice.  Please offer any insight you may have.  Thanks!

[lostinidlewonder]

When holding the sustain pedal we can hold down notes for any period of time, each one will produce the same sound quality, so in reality the physical touch to produce a string of notes will sound no different with a staccato or legato touch.

However the physical feeling (that effects our muscular memorisation) we get from producing the notes is effected by our touch. If we individually stab at notes of general arpeggios while holding the sustain ped, we are adding unneccesary effort to our overall control of playing. If we play with one movement, not so much holding notes down with our fingers, but feeling an overall general shape that a collection of notes creates. Determining a single physical action to produce a string of notes. We want to make our playing as effortless as possible, conserve our energy, reduce unnecessary movement.

Of course in the end we have to do what is most comfortable for ourselves. So in the end it is left up us but I think we all should make an aim to strive for physical efficiency in our playing.

[rc]

I have to practice on a digital w/o pedal most of the time, so I'm typically keeping things connected manually anyways.

One reason I can think is basically 'just in case'. If you fudge the pedalling your fingers will probably have it covered, or maybe if one day you find yourself on an instrument with a dysfunctional pedal or none at all, you won't be helpless... It's a bit of a stretch.

In pedalled sections, my fingers 'let up early' almost instinctively.

Have you asked your teacher for his reasons? I'm curious as well.

[getcool]

We want to make our playing as effortless as possible, conserve our energy, reduce unnecessary movement.

I can understand your point about how using the wrong touch will waste energy and movement.  But I wonder if sometimes it actually takes *more* energy to strive for a legato touch...

Of course in the end we have to do what is most comfortable for ourselves. So in the end it is left up us but I think we all should make an aim to strive for physical efficiency in our playing.

This is what I'm getting at.  Now, let's take my original example of the C major chord and alter it a bit.  Say a passage has an arpeggiated chord (again calling for pedal), but this time, one that spans more than an octave, with larger intervals between notes.  When I play this passage, I can either strive to connect each note as fluently as possible, or I can play them slightly disconnected.  With the pedal, both will sound the same.  But the second method will just feel easier on my hand, not having to stretch as much.

Some other more practical examples are pieces such as the first movement of the Moonlight, or Chopin's C major prelude; in such pieces, you have arpeggiations in the right hand with a melody riding over the top.  Striving to connect the melody while playing the arpeggios is a lot of work; it sometimes feels easier to just let the pedal carry the melody.

So that's what I'm wondering about.  If it feels more comfortable, how it is less efficient?  (again, I'm not challenging your response, I'm just curious as a relative beginner)

Have you asked your teacher for his reasons? I'm curious as well.

I haven't found the right time yet (as our lesson time is brief), but I will.  It's definitely something that he notices, however, and comments on whenever he sees me "letting the pedal do the work".

[kriskicksass]

Actually it has to do with the attack on the strings and the resulting tone created by the piano. Finger legato has a way of "ironing out" the sound, making it much smoother and more fluid than a staccato touch. Also, a legato touch allows for a warmer tone. Only in very rare circumstances should you use the pedal to connect tones without assistance from the fingers. Finger legato should always be the foundation of legato sounds, not the pedals.

(BTW, if you don't believe me about the tone thing, try it out some time. Find a chordal passage in a piece of music and play it with a staccato touch with the pedal down. Then, play it with much less pedal and use switch-fingerings and finger sliding to maintain a smooth legato. The difference in sound is tremendous.)

[steve jones]

Actually, I have been wondering something similar myself:

When pedalling is indicated, is it important to physically hold down notes for their full duration? Obviously, there are times when the pedal is used so that the fingers DONT need to remain planted (such as when chords need to be spread), but in general practice is it recommended to hold notes?

Iv been looking at Chopin prelude 1, and it seems that the RH is much easier if you can release the notes quickly and let the pedal do the work! I guess that is cheating... or is it?

[will]

I can understand your point about how using the wrong touch will waste energy and movement.  But I wonder if sometimes it actually takes *more* energy to strive for a legato touch...

This is what I'm getting at.  Now, let's take my original example of the C major chord and alter it a bit.  Say a passage has an arpeggiated chord (again calling for pedal), but this time, one that spans more than an octave, with larger intervals between notes.  When I play this passage, I can either strive to connect each note as fluently as possible, or I can play them slightly disconnected.  With the pedal, both will sound the same.  But the second method will just feel easier on my hand, not having to stretch as much.

So that's what I'm wondering about.  If it feels more comfortable, how it is less efficient?  (again, I'm not challenging your response, I'm just curious as a relative beginner)

More and more I find myself using the second method after many years of using the first.
Have you experimented playing both ways and carefully listening to how the sound differs (or stays the same)?
If they both sound the same then do what feels more comfortable.

I haven't found the right time yet (as our lesson time is brief), but I will.  It's definitely something that he notices, however, and comments on whenever he sees me "letting the pedal do the work".

Please do find his opinion I would be interested to hear his reasons.

Perhaps an audience will hear the performance differently depending on how you move.
If an audience sees disconnected movements they may hear disconnected sounds, even if the pedal is completely depressed.....

[rc]

Actually it has to do with the attack on the strings and the resulting tone created by the piano. Finger legato has a way of "ironing out" the sound, making it much smoother and more fluid than a staccato touch. Also, a legato touch allows for a warmer tone. Only in very rare circumstances should you use the pedal to connect tones without assistance from the fingers. Finger legato should always be the foundation of legato sounds, not the pedals.

(BTW, if you don't believe me about the tone thing, try it out some time. Find a chordal passage in a piece of music and play it with a staccato touch with the pedal down. Then, play it with much less pedal and use switch-fingerings and finger sliding to maintain a smooth legato. The difference in sound is tremendous.)

This makes sense. Thanks.