Help in Joplin's "Paragon Rag"

[mwarner1]

I'm not actually working on the piece right now, but I was following the score while listening to Joshua Rifkin's recording of it when I noticed something strange in the second strain. In the third bar of every four-bar phrase (measures 24, 28, and 32), the right hand is instructed to hold a G chord while also playing a passage a full register up. Clearly pedal is needed. The problem is, this is ragtime and holding the pedal for a full measure -- especially one that contains a chromatic passing tone -- just won't do.

Which leads me to believe that the sostenuto pedal is in order. But how would one get the sostenuto pedal to catch the chord in the right hand but not the octave in the left hand? Rifkin pulls it off like it's nothing at all. Would one simply release the left hand a split-second earlier than normal, and then quickly hit the sostenuto pedal just before the next beat? I guess I've answered my own question, because that seems like the only way. But when I listen to Rifkin's playing, it doesn't sound like he lifts his left hand any earlier than on any other downbeat.

Thoughts?

[ted]

I see what you mean. I have played this for years and I had never thought about it until now. Well, obviously it cannot be done and, if you were to key it in as written into a computer programme, chances are you might not like the sound of it anyway. There are many similar examples in ragtime, where things are written in this multi-part manner to indicate accent or emphasis.

I have the volume of rags in front of me and, just flicking through it I can see dozens of similar instances. Quite often the first of each pair of quaver basses has a crotchet stem. Clearly this is equally impossible most of the time. I think perhaps Joplin is taking liberties with literal notation in order to express a rhythmic feeling or an accent rather than a precise representation of sound.

A good similar example occurs in bars 5 and 6 of the first strain of Pineapple. I think he is indicating that the bass octaves G, Gb should be brought out as an audible voice against the right hand. The right hand of the Gladiolus final strain is another case in point. I don't quite hold my fifth finger down on those D flats, and I'm sure not many others do so, despite the "sostenuto sempre". It's just an indication that a certain rhythmic counterpoint must be heard and felt.

I think the point you have raised is a very interesting one, and I am sure many examples exist in classical music too.

I know when I write out my own pieces with lots of rapid notes, of which I want a few to stand out as comprising an independent phrase, I frequently stick stems on them and sometimes even join them with beams. It is somehow a more graphic and more easily communicated representation than writing correctly using accent marks.

[getcool]

Interesting.  In the Rifkin recording, what can you actually hear during this specific passage?

I've never thought about this before, either.  I feel like reading some scores while listening to recordings, now, and looking for examples of this.

[getcool]

[duplicate post deleted]

[mwarner1]

A good similar example occurs in bars 5 and 6 of the first strain of Pineapple. I think he is indicating that the bass octaves G, Gb should be brought out as an audible voice against the right hand.

I think this is a valid point, but one thing I'd consider before making that decision is what's going on harmonically. For the first half of the measure, this is a simple IV chord (Eb major), and nothing in either hand contradicts this tonality. The second half of the measure is a borrowed chord from the minor mode, the minor iv chord (Eb minor) with a 7th. Again, nothing in either hand contradicts this tonality. Therefore, I think one could also be justified in using a bit of pedal here and holding the G and Gb a *little* longer than usual, although I don't think a full quarter note is a great idea, because you don't want the Bb in the right hand to resonate for too long.

The right hand of the Gladiolus final strain is another case in point. I don't quite hold my fifth finger down on those D flats, and I'm sure not many others do so, despite the "sostenuto sempre". It's just an indication that a certain rhythmic counterpoint must be heard and felt.

I've always held those D flats. Do you choose not to do so because you have smallish hands (honest question)?

Regarding your post in general, I agree -- it really does seem impossible. But I'm telling you! Rifkin does it, and it really makes a difference, particularly in the low D of the chord, as it connects with the first chord of the next measure. The voice leading in the upper voices is also heard. I'm going to try it with the sostenuto pedal today at my lesson and ask my teacher about it. I'll get back to you. Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

[ted]

You obviously put a great deal more thought into these things than I do. The truth is that, until last night, I hadn't looked at the scores for years. I tend to just memorise things as quickly as possible and forget about notation. Wrong, I know, but the habits of a lifetime are hardly worth altering at this stage.

No, I actually have a slightly wider span than average so the Gladiolus thing could just be sloppiness on my part. I shall have to have a closer listen to Rifkin. I have his three vinyl recordings of the rags somewhere but couldn't find them last night. The only other professional recordings I have of Paragon are those of Arpin and Morath, both of whom take liberties of various kinds.

I think the whole issue is quite complicated. I notice that David Thomas Roberts, in his contemporary ragtime, also writes using this multi-part notation. His "For Kansas City", for instance, has many densely written sections with double stems, ties and beams. Listening to his playing I cannot say that I hear correspondingly different durations, only varied accents. His publisher, who actually typeset all his works, is a good friend of mine. There's nothing much about ragtime she doesn't know so I shall ask her about it.

Although I do play a large number of these works more or less intuitively, I do not feel I have the expertise to fully answer your question.