My Teacher Says I Play Too Tense ?

[mattm]

My teacher has been telling me that I play too tense.  She says that I play with only my fingers and that the rest of my arms are completely still.  She says I need to loosen up my whole arm and shoulders and involve them in playing and not just using my fingers.  She recommended an exercise which is similar to a 'gravity drop' I have read about here, as well as just sort of flailing my arms, wrists, and hands about like a rag doll in order to loosen them up. 

Is it bad to play with just the fingers?  Is she right in saying that I should loosen up the arms?  I read somewhere that Bach played rather rigid, so did he have bad technique?  I've been playing only for a year now, so technique is still something sort of new and I don't think I've been playing long enough to have bad habits ingrained too deeply just yet.  I want to be sure and learn to play 'the correct' way early, so I dont compound problems later on.

[luvslive]

yes, fix the problem now!  you should play with your whole upper body.  i used to play mostly with the fingers and find i am a better pianist using my shoulders, arms, wrists, etc.  bach did not play on a piano like we do!

[Ruro]

bach did not play on a piano like we do!

Is that because the Piano's were different compared to nowadays? Or because he needed to play that way due to a health problem (if any)? Or perhaps to suit/express his own repertoire in a certain way? I'm curious ^_^

[getcool]

Is that because the Piano's were different compared to nowadays? Or because he needed to play that way due to a health problem (if any)? Or perhaps to suit/express his own repertoire in a certain way? I'm curious ^_^

It's mainly due to the fact that the pianoforte wasn't available yet.  It was invented in the early 18th century, but even at the end of Bach's life (~1750), it hadn't yet become mainstream.

Bach played on the harpsichord and maybe the clavichord as well.  Having never played either of these instruments myself, I cannot say how the technique would be different, but I can guess that a piano demands greater bodily involvement due to its broader range of dynamic expressiveness.

[luvslive]

yes, i should have mentioned these 2 instruments.  also bach played the organ, which does not require more than finger work.  on these instruments they could not vary their dynamics (crescendo and decrescendo)...i think the harpsichord's strings were plucked by quills so it didn't matter how much force you used.  i remember hearing that clavichord was very soft in sound.  the organ you use knobs and your foot to increase volume, at least that is the deal with modern organs.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Yes absolutely the arm weight should be involved. My teacher stresses that to me. Arthur Rubinstein has said that he doesn't tire during a recital because of the help of the arm. Not only the arm should be involved, but the wrists of course, the back and the legs. The whole body should be in a condition that supports playing. I constantly have to be reminded to use the arm weight and it helps tremendously. Without it, it is much harder to produce a rich sound. Hope this helps.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Greetings.

Yes absolutely the arm weight should be involved. My teacher stresses that to me. Arthur Rubinstein has said that he doesn't tire during a recital because of the help of the arm. Not only the arm should be involved, but the wrists of course, the back and the legs. The whole body should be in a condition that supports playing. I constantly have to be reminded to use the arm weight and it helps tremendously. Without it, it is much harder to produce a rich sound. Hope this helps.

You know Arthur Rubinstein is dead, right?

[debussy symbolism]

It's an interview of Arthur Rubinstein that I read in the "Clavier" magazine.

[sissco]

Ok right....

Last week my teacher said i must hold my arm most of the time still. She said i must play with my wrist and fingers....and you guys tell me now the opposite (correct spelling?  ). So i'm a little bit confused now 

[debussy symbolism]

Ok right....

Last week my teacher said i must hold my arm most of the time still. She said i must play with my wrist and fingers....and you guys tell me now the opposite (correct spelling?  ). So i'm a little bit confused now 

There is really not one method to approach technique and every teacher has his or her points of view. Whilst I think that it is essential for using the hand support, it is also essential to use wrists and fingers. Like in practicing arpeggios, I can practice them with only a flexible wrist actions, or just the fingers, and then combining of course. Your wrists have to be kept low and the arm should support it's movement. Flexible wrists, no forcing the sound, that is whatever strenght is in the fingers should be applied. Hope this helps.

[rc]

Ok right....

Last week my teacher said i must hold my arm most of the time still. She said i must play with my wrist and fingers....and you guys tell me now the opposite (correct spelling?  ). So i'm a little bit confused now 

I think what your teacher must have meant is "play more using wrists and fingers"... As in, still use all your arm, but free up and use the wrists and fingersmore. They might be a bit stiff/tense.

The thing is, it's so hard to put accurately into words, and easily misunderstood. What really helped me was to watch some videos of pianists playing, and to pay attention to how every body part worked together to get the fingers to the notes. It's much easier to see than to say.

[pianistimo]

just like singers, you can look at a pianists neck.  if their veins are sticking out or the neck is rigid, they are trying too hard.  if you start at the neck - you will be able to move down the body relaxing efficiently.  if you just start at the arms (i've learned) you can still hold tension in your body without noticing.  sometimes it takes someone else pointing it out to you.  neck, shoulders, arms, wrists ... move them around.

[debussy symbolism]

just like singers, you can look at a pianists neck.  if their veins are sticking out or the neck is rigid, they are trying too hard.  if you start at the neck - you will be able to move down the body relaxing efficiently.  if you just start at the arms (i've learned) you can still hold tension in your body without noticing.  sometimes it takes someone else pointing it out to you.  neck, shoulders, arms, wrists ... move them around.

Yes relaxation is also the key. Every muscle needs to be relaxed, so that there is no tension in the arms, the wrists and the fingers, as well as every other muscle in the body. My teacher stresses this alot to me and I strive to attain a proper position and stay relaxed. It is important to release tension when one feels tense. Hope this helps.

[quantum]

I remember one of my teachers telling me to relax my shoulders.  I thought I was playing relaxed until my teacher pointed out that my shoulders were higher than normal.  Pianistimo is right, sometimes you need another person watching you to tell you if you look tense or not.  There are a lot of points in the body that we need to pay attention to, and sometimes we just overlook one part. 

With regards to Bach, those were different instruments in his day.  The harpsichord is much more delicate than the piano and is plucked with quills.  There is no way to alter dynamics, and therefore no need for using added body weight as we do on the piano. 

As others have mentioned, playing piano involves the whole body.  As you advance in technique, pieces will start asking you to play with more dynamic contrasts.  Especially in order to play loud, one directs one's own body weight through the fingers to get increased volume.  Before you can do this, you have to start loosening up all those other body parts that need to be used. 

[sissco]

I think what your teacher must have meant is "play more using wrists and fingers"... As in, still use all your arm, but free up and use the wrists and fingersmore. They might be a bit stiff/tense.

The thing is, it's so hard to put accurately into words, and easily misunderstood. What really helped me was to watch some videos of pianists playing, and to pay attention to how every body part worked together to get the fingers to the notes. It's much easier to see than to say.

yeah ok you're right....but my teacher really said hold my arm really stiff if i play  And she meant if you play at one place...(so jumping octaves is another story) but i'm not allowed to move my hand upwards and downwards (in lenght). I must hold my hand at the same place....haha sorry for my english. It is hard to explain as you said. But i always move my hand if I try to play with feeling...but whatever...i don't think i'm doing something wrong. I understand what you guys say so....

[faulty_damper]

"My teacher says I play too tenses."

So what else has your teacher done besides mentioning the obvious?

One significant reason why tension occures is due to poor technique, in this case, it is the involvement of more than the necessary muscles to a set task.  If this is the case, then you should be instructed on the correct body movements to correct poor technique which schould virtually eliminate any unnecessary tension that is detrimental to piano playing.

Verbally mentioning it is a start.  Now you teacher should teach.

[mattm]

"My teacher says I play too tenses."

So what else has your teacher done besides mentioning the obvious?

One significant reason why tension occures is due to poor technique, in this case, it is the involvement of more than the necessary muscles to a set task.  If this is the case, then you should be instructed on the correct body movements to correct poor technique which schould virtually eliminate any unnecessary tension that is detrimental to piano playing.

Verbally mentioning it is a start.  Now you teacher should teach.

Thanks for the replies.

Well, she explained that my arms should be very loose, like wet noodles almost when playing.  She also grabbed my hand and told me to let my arm go totally limp and then she flung my arm around a bit and said this is how loose I was supposed to play.  She also said the fingers should be controlled, and that instead of pressing down with the fingers, she said to press down with the natural weight and gravity of the arm, as well as the wrist.   She made an analogy to a water hose explaining that if the hose is tense and wound up, then the water does not flow through right or is stopped altogether.  She said music was the same way.   She then showed me an exercise that is similar to gravity drops I have read about here, as well as just loosening the arms and wrists up away from the piano.  I also noticed she kinda likes me to keep my hands very close to the keyboard itself, kind of gliding over the keys, keeping them as low as possible. 

Faulty damper - you also mentioned that bad technique is the involvment of more than the necessary muscles.  This is where I get confused.  I feel that the pieces I am playing only require me to move my fingers.  Up to this point, I have felt no need to move my arms or anything like that because I have felt my fingers adequete enough to get the job done so far.  Apparently this isn't the case though as it seems the majority advocates using the whole arm and body.  Could you explain?


Any other pointers?  I don't want to waste hours of time 'learning 'the wrong way.'

[debussy symbolism]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, she explained that my arms should be very loose, like wet noodles almost when playing.  She also grabbed my hand and told me to let my arm go totally limp and then she flung my arm around a bit and said this is how loose I was supposed to play.  She also said the fingers should be controlled, and that instead of pressing down with the fingers, she said to press down with the natural weight and gravity of the arm, as well as the wrist.   She made an analogy to a water hose explaining that if the hose is tense and wound up, then the water does not flow through right or is stopped altogether.  She said music was the same way.   She then showed me an exercise that is similar to gravity drops I have read about here, as well as just loosening the arms and wrists up away from the piano.  I also noticed she kinda likes me to keep my hands very close to the keyboard itself, kind of gliding over the keys, keeping them as low as possible. 

Yes the relaxed arm approach is absolutely right. The reason for this is that when you play with just the fingers, you will get tired, especially in places with fast scales and arpeggios and not to mention powerfull chords. With proper arm support and flexible wrist you will not tire as much and have a richer sound.

[debussy symbolism]

Sorry about me accidentally writing my own post into the quote. The bottom half is my reply. I really need to proofread my posts.

[faulty_damper]

Up to this point, I have felt no need to move my arms or anything like that because I have felt my fingers adequete enough to get the job done so far.  Apparently this isn't the case though as it seems the majority advocates using the whole arm and body.  Could you explain?

This is one of the biggest falacies of piano playing.  Piano playing may seem like it is done with only the fingers but it is not.  Efficient movement requires the use of larger muscle groups to support the smaller ones.

 One very important movement is the rotation of the forearm even during what seems finger only pieces of music.  Efficient playing of scales can not done with the fingers alone but with the combination of the fingers, wrist and forearm.  Trills are another excellent example.  If you only use the movement of the fingers to perform a trill, your fingers will tire in a short time (unless you have conditioned your muscles to play for a long time which requires months of continual practice).

The biggest obstacle to overcome in learning efficient movement are the preconceptions of how they are used to play the piano and the sole goal of depressing the 'buttons' on the keyboard.  The goal should be efficient technique before the keys are depressed and efficient technique after the keys have been depressed.  This is unfortunately a difficult task to learn because you need to know what your body can do easily and efficiently as applied to the reportory you are learning.  This should be where a capable PIANO teacher is of the utmost use is being able to correct any movements.  Unfortunately again, these are few and far between.