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Pathetique 1st movement feedback please (Read 3213 times)

Offline newbness

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Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
« on: February 14, 2006, 04:17:32 AM »
Hey masters, im a selftaught pianist and i got no teacher yet because they too expensive right now. Please rip this recording to shreds.

I've tried my best to use my ear for all the correct articulation etc by listening to others play this piece.
The battery ran out of the mp3/recorder player so near the ending of the piece is cut off. Feedback for improvements please master

http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=377B4B94FFB008C7

another link incase it expires
http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E416A737CA6889D4

piano sheet music of Sonata 8 (Pathétique)


Offline tompilk

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 08:51:54 PM »
Im playing this at the moment for my diploma and i think it's a great piece. I have got about 1/2 way through the first movement, all the 2nd movement and all the 3rd movement practised, but not up to speed. .. in fact very slowly... but it's not as hard as i thought it would be is it?
A bit slow at the beginning... and how suddenly did you start after sitting down??!?!?
In fact too slow at the beggining i would say.
Some strange rhythms too... such as before the chromatic at the beginning.
However, I think you stick too much to the rhythm in the left hand during the octave trems or whatever they are.
Tom
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline steve jones

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 11:02:05 PM »

Sounds pretty good to me mate. You have the chromatic scale sorted! Just need to get the tempo up on the trem and you're in business.


Offline quantum

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #3 on: February 15, 2006, 10:43:15 AM »
Well first of all let me say you did a good job at trying to catch as many details as you could from the score.  Your intentions were clearly audible with sforzandos, dynamics, phrasing.  A suggestion, next time lower your recording level or place the recorder farther away from the piano.  You may have noticed distortions in the recording when you played certain loud notes, it's called clipping and caused from a recording level that is too high. 

Grave:
Through out the entire intro you need to be more steady with your counting.  At places you seem to slow down then suddenly surge faster.  It helps to count using smaller note values for such slow music.  Eg: count in 16th notes. 

Bar 1: RH beat 4, that is a B natural not flat.  It should be a G major triad. 

Bar 3: careful not to make the sF to much.  Also be careful to preserve the dotted rhythm.  You seem to slow down very slightly in order to do the sF. 

Bar 4: the first half of this bar you suddenly go to fast.  Tempo should remain the same from previous bar. Crescendo does not mean speed up. 

Bar 5: notice if you count in 16th notes, your tempo here is faster than the beginning. Good job with dynamic contrasts.

Bar 8: Again here where cresc. is marked you speed up.  Keep the tempo consistent, use dynamics to intensify.  I'm not saying you need to play metronomically, but rather your tempo fluctuations are too wide. 

Bar 9: There are 4 even 16ths in beat 2, no indication to speed up here.  Rests are just as important as notes.  Hold the rest at the end of the bar for the full value. 


Allegro di molto e con brio:
You are playing the Allegro section quite accurately and clearly, all notes are there.  Now what has to be done is to give some parts more focus and some parts less.  Eg: the way you are playing the LH now is quite heavy, and it will be hard to get it faster.  LH is only accompaniment, so lighten up, use your wrist, play it softer.  Think of LH as shaking, and not so laborious.  Think of LH as a measured trill/tremolo. 


Bar 27: keep tempo consistent: you slow down for the p, but speed up for the rinf. 

Bar 30: lighten up the LH.  I know it seems like much more work to get the hands synchronized.  Think of the RH instead.  You also slow down a tad to do this.  Try to keep thinking ahead to the next bar.  I know this is a tiny issue, but it may become magnified when you speed up.  A lot of the tempo fluctuations occurring with tremolos, are because you are probably playing them too heavy.  Think light tremolos, and try not to tense up the wrist when both hands get more complex. 


Bar 53, 54 and similar: Just a little less on the sF.  Also it sounds like your trying to push your hand into the keys for the sF.  Think of throwing your hand at the keys, it is different from pushing and it gives a better sF sound. 

Also in the whole bar 51 section, careful again with tempo fluctuations.  I like the effect your trying to make with the rinf. and sF. 

I'm guessing Bar 84 LH was a slip.  Bb followed by B natural. 

Bar 89 and sequence: could use more pedal here. 

Bar 99 - 100: Could hold LH a bit longer and add pedal to the first bit of the bar.  Also try to keep the tempo flowing.  Some very slight hesitations here and in similar sections.  This is a continuation of the harmonic progression of the previous bars. 

Bar 131 - 132 (Just incase there is a discrepancy with bar numberings this is the 2nd ending of repeat in my edition): Make sure you hold those two chords for the full value.  Keep counting from the tempo of previous bars.  Also you could hold the fermata longer.

Bar 133 sequence (Tempo I): Count carefully and hold rests and long notes for full value. 


DEVELOPMENT

Bar 137: Lighten up LH tremolos here and similar.

Bar 139: Also be careful with surges in tempo, as before.

Bar 167: Lighten up on both hands, do not tense wrists - it will make playing this easier.  Think of the big beats (in this case 1/2 notes) instead of individual 8ths. 

Bar 174: here and similar you cut the trills short and rush ahead into the next bar.  Keep tempo steady and relax when you do the trills, no need to get nervous about them.  Play the bar to yourself counting without the trills to get the tempo first. 

Bar 207 sequence: clear pedal between each new harmony. 


***

Well good job here, keep working at it. You've been very diligent at observing details in the score.

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline zheer

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #4 on: February 15, 2006, 11:19:47 AM »
Shame on me, i found the interpretaion so bad that i had to stop listining to it after the Grave section and a little through the fast section.
      What quantum has said should be taken seriously and studied if you are looking to improve on it. I will listen to it again and see if i can add anything to what quantum has said.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline zheer

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #5 on: February 15, 2006, 11:41:52 AM »


         ( 1 ) MUST MUST count in the Grave section. It has 4 beats in a bar, Count in crotchets, 1    2     3     4, all the time, it takes hard work.


         ( 2 ) Allegro di molto e con brio, MUST be playd twice as fast,  aim for 154 crotchet beats per minut.


          ( 3 )  LH, bar 139 - 145 start each note with a slight accent and play the note after staccato with no accent.


          ( 4 ) The rest you must figure out on your own ;)


     However there were moments where my eyebrow reached the very to ov my head because those moments were far better than the rest, for example bar 83 - 90.

      Good luck. :)
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline newbness

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #6 on: February 15, 2006, 02:17:23 PM »
Wow thanks master quantum n zheer for addons :D :) :P. Im goiner print this out and study it like how a priest studies his bible :-X appreciate this heaps God bless. YESSSS !!!!!!!!! Thanks, good men!!!

Allegro molto e con brio has to be played twice as fast :o wow
Things i don't understand:
whats rinf and sF? i thought sF was the loudest.
sforzandos?
fermata?

Thanks  :-*

Offline quantum

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #7 on: February 15, 2006, 09:20:21 PM »
         ( 1 ) MUST MUST count in the Grave section. It has 4 beats in a bar, Count in crotchets, 1    2     3     4, all the time, it takes hard work.

Subdividing the counting into 16ths or 32nds will improve accuracy and be much easier.  Once that is done he can work on feeling the bigger beats as you suggest.


sF = sforzando
rinf = rinforzano

In Beethoven sF is usually pointed towards specific single notes or chords, while rinf. could apply to a broader area of several notes or chords.  sF could in a general sense be said to be "louder" but in essence they are just accents - a method of makeing them stand out against the rest of the music.  One does not have to be speciffically louder than another, as long as they bring out the specific note(s) they are directed at.

Fermata: a half circle with a dot inside.  Means to hold the note for longer than the specified value.  Eg: Bar 132 over RH and LH parts. 


The Allegro molto e con brio doesn't have to be played exactly twice as fast, but I would prefer to word it as - it should be played faster. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline airasia

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 04:08:16 AM »
I don't fully agree with quantum, the left hand tremolos do not have to be that quiet and trill-like.  I just heard a recording by Gilels and he played the left hand quite loud compared to most people while playing it the right speed (fast allegro), and I kind of like it like that.

Offline jamie_liszt

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #9 on: February 16, 2006, 08:11:37 AM »
I didn't listen to the whole piece, But what I heard was good. It was too slow, I heard some wrong notes and hesitations in the beginning that I listened to, EG: the scale, you made a mistake if you listen (the first scale) and the tremelos should be faster, really fast.

Offline gorbee natcase

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #10 on: February 19, 2006, 12:52:56 PM »
More speed feel the piece its very rythmical,you are on track with notation, give it obsession listen to different recordings more speed :)                                                                                                  
(\_/)
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(> <)      What ever Bernhard said

Offline lagin

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #11 on: February 19, 2006, 09:41:40 PM »
154!!!  I play it at 120 - 126 :-X, and can do 132 if I have to but.............154!!!  Personally I wouldn't worry about having it up to "professional" speed if you're not a professional, but yes, definately faster than it is now.  Would anyone mind if I posted a bit of mine?  I want some good advice like this chap here got!  It's like a free piano lesson!
Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven.

Offline jamie_liszt

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #12 on: February 20, 2006, 05:26:00 AM »
imma post mine too soon

Offline bearzinthehood

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 11:57:36 PM »
I just listed to Gilels again.  He plays it really fast, pretty much at the maximum tempo that I can play and still hit the notes correctly.  Maybe I should practice from scratch and resurrect this piece.

Offline yamaha

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #14 on: March 19, 2006, 01:01:32 PM »
Hi  :)

The links have expired, any chance you can re-post?  :)

Offline kyle556

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 08:59:04 PM »
Yes please.  I would like to hear this as well because I just learned this piece about 8 months back or so. 

Offline dickreuter

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Re: Pathetique 1st movement feedback please
«Reply #16 on: April 12, 2006, 12:46:32 PM »
too bad you don't attach the file directly because those links are barred from my office.