Letting Teachers Down

[m1469]

Have you ever had a student who seemed to have the potential to go as "far" as can be gone with the instrument, but simply did not want that ?  And you had given this student every opportunity, and went above and beyond the call of duty as a teacher, and this student was needing to make decisions about a career because s/he was truly at that point in life, and s/he doesn't do what you wished s/he would ?

Or have you been this student, yourself ?

How did you or your student break the news ?
Did you (as the teacher) or your teacher (if you were the student) feel let down ?

If you please, I would greatly appreciate you sharing your experiences along these lines.


Thanks,
m1469

[pianistimo]

i think if you want to be a concert pianist, you have to sort of 'give your life over' tot he career and not to a family, imo.  my teacher jp billaud told me about this and yet went on to have a family of his own (his wife is a teacher).  he is probably correct about the amount of practice time vs. time with family - and yet is quite successful as far as i know with balancing time (he is retired and his wife a full time pianist and teacher).  maybe if one knows the sacrifices involved, one is willing to work twice as hard when married and with children.  it's hard already - to be a performing artist - but with a famly to find quiet time, concentration - without yelling at everyone to be quiet.

my own perspective - every couple of years, i go into a depression from not practicing enough and start going to nearby college practice rooms to get my technique up to par again.  then, my home life goes to hell in a handbasket.  so then, i get really into my homelife, and my technique goes back to hell in a handbasket.  for instance, lately, i don't like the disorganized mess i've been living with - due to researching music and leaving bits of paper around with important musical information.  so one day, i threw out a bunch of it.  am sure in a few years i'll think, why did i throw that out? 

what makes it worse is that i also save my kids good homework pages and art work, etc. etc.  then, i look at the pile of stuff and think - why do i save everything?  soon i will not make it to the piano and even get througha ll this mess. sometimes throwing things out IS good.  of course, organizing my music should be a priority. e verything is out of order.  i need someone to come over and help me, majorly.  my husband is the same way.  he has a whole library downstairs (and since our move) that needs organizing.

guess if you work you work.  if you take care of your home - that's an organizing thing.  and, taking care of children is a full time job, too.  they need lots of activities to keep them out of trouble.  so whatever you do - it seems there is never enough time!  i don't regret having a family, either, but it seems that organizing is pretty much a family affair.  it's hard to keep everything neat if you are the only one picking up and organizing.

[rc]

Sorry, no experiences from me. My decisions so far have pleased my teacher, and possibly let down my parents (they now turn to my younger brother with hopes of a wealthy future, poor kid ).

The question "What do I do with my life?" is a big one, highly personal. I say it's selfish to try and pressure someone to do what you want with their life. We all know people in life who carry their parents baggage, for example.

I can somewhat relate, when you put a lot of effort into something only to find later that the people you're working with have no intention of carrying on . That's why it's so good to be honest and not tell people what they want to hear. Better to tell a piano teacher "I would rather keep music as my hobby", than have the teacher go on preparing things and pulling strings as if the student would be taking that step.

In the teachers shoes, I would probably try and ask the student what they want... I know a lot of people don't know what they want, so maybe have to help the student know what avenues are possible, how to get there, what it takes etc. That's taking the step beyond teacher and into 'mentor'. And if the student doesn't seem interested in talking about such things, that's an answer.

I remember spending an hour lesson talking about university and such things with my teacher. Even though nobody touched the piano, it was the most valuable lesson because we could then be on the same page and walking the right path.

[Bob]

For me, it's the student's decision.

I have been disappointed with their decisions sometimes.  There have been a few times I see things working out perfectly for them, that something was "meant to be" -- the performance, the piece, the student is ready.  And then they decide not to.  When it's "because I just don't want to" that's disappointing.

[lau]

my husband is the same way.

I thought you were a guy!   

[pianistimo]

what made you think that?  maybe i try too hard in music - but i've never tried to be a guy.     

[elisianna]

and possibly let down my parents (they now turn to my younger brother with hopes of a wealthy future, poor kid ).

Ahahaha sounds like me!  I tease my parents and call myself the "failure kid".  I was the only one who didn't go to a private school, the only one who is completely obsessed with my music, my art, and my writing.  My teacher said I was the kind of kid that parents don't want.  Of course that is true!

--

Of course in the past I have disappointed teachers.  I played the violin when I was four, and only ever practiced because I would get princess stickers if I did a good job.  I apparently had a lot of potential but I hated it.   My mom was young and stupid and let me quit, even though my teacher begged her not to.  Later on I took the flute, and made my teacher cry because she said I had so much potential but wouldn't use it.  Then there was my voice teacher... basically same thing happened with her.

I made a decision when I was 16 to play the piano, because my mom always bugging me about wasted potential was annoying, and I believed her that i porbably did have some.  At first I didn't like my teacher but I'd play like five songs a week.  Naturally he moved me up uhhh eight grade levels after year. XD

[tac-tics]

what made you think that?

It's the 'o' in pianistimo.

It would seem to me that pianistima would be the feminine form ;-)

(but nevermind that, your name is lovely)

[pianistimo]

always had troubles with names and passwords.  whatever i want is taken already.  i tried so many names - and they were already in use.  so, i feel somewhat lucky to just have a name.  i'll make pianistima my secret name - mostly used by people who know i'm female.  the rest can just make those little jokes about 'oh, you play the piano - you must be male' stereotype stuff.  of course lau did think that 'i love xenakis' was a woman - but i think that was wishful thinking.  these forums do give one a broader perspective on genders since you can't really tell unless a person chooses to tell.  and then, ocasionally you'll have people switching genders randomly.   

[chopinfan_22]

I'll tell you my story....


I started piano lessons when I was 5. In the second grade, when I was 8, I quit. I quit because, like all small children... all I wanted to do was be around my friends, and play and have fun. To me, the piano wasn't fun. I hated it. My mother would always have to make me practice, but I wouldn't. I hated practicing, I hated music. All I wanted to do was play outside. So, when my sister went off to college, both my sisters quit the piano, and I did too. I never once touched the piano after that. As I grew older, this same attitude toward the piano remained. All I did was play video games and be with my friends. Then... when I was 15, I was in the bandroom at our high school, toward the end of the year. One of my friends, Alex, was playing a song on the piano. To me, it was one of the most beautiful songs I'd ever heard. I watched him play... and I longed to be able to play it, because I loved it so much. It was then, after obtaining the sheet music, that I finally sat on the piano bench, after 8 years of never touching the instrument. The keys were dusty and neglected. I looked down at them, and they looked back at me, longing to be played. I sat the music onto the piano, and tried to play the notes. My posture was horrible... none of the notes seems to come out right the first time I tried to play them... and I practiced it slowly. After about two weeks of looking at this song, I finally asked my mom about taking piano lessons from my former teacher. We got a hold of her, and we schedules lessons to begin in September. I really had no experience with the piano, other than trying to play that one song (which I might add, I never completed). I went to my first piano lesson I'd had in 8 years, and the song that I was dying to learn was the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata. I sat the music in front of me, and the lesson began. I met my teacher every week, but it seemed that I wasn't too motivated. I practiced maybe 30 minutes a day, if that. Eventually I had learned the piece (after a good two or three months). I knew maybe one scale (E Major), two if you count C major. I had memorized the piece, then wanted to start on something else. The thing was... I'd want to start something... then the next week, I'd want to change songs. This has pretty much continued up til now, but before I get to that, let me bring you up to with everything that has happened to me over those years.

I entered high school, probably the four hardest years of anyone's life. My friends changed, as did I. I still just wanted to spend time with friends, play sports, play video games, do everything. I was in Drama Club, Art, Club, Scholar's Bowl, FCCLA (Family, Community, Career Leaders of America). I was doing all these things, thinking I was doing what I wanted. Through that first year, I learned a few things.  I learned that I wanted to take piano lessons, and I learned that sports really aren't for me. So I continued through my sophomore year... who my friends were and who I chose to associate myself with changed. I was no longer in sports--I chose the piano. I was still in all the clubs/organizations. I felt, however, that I was not making any progress with the piano. I was always wanting to change songs, or I would want to try and play something that was way beyond my ability (such as Chopin's Fantasie-Impromptu, Op. 66, after only four months of being back with the instrument. I think this prooves that generally, high school students can be naive). The summer after my sophomore year it still was the same, I was always changing what song I wanted to learn, not sticking with anything. I learned some theory, the base clef, and some other scales, and Chopin's Prelude Op. 28 No. 4. That was the extent of my pianistic ability.

School started this past year, I was a junior. Everything was different from my sophomore year. Who my friends were changed once again, and what was important to me changed as well. Not only was I not in sports, but the only club I remained in was Drama Club. I dropped everything else to pursue music. Even so, I would continually want to change what song I wanted to learn. That stopped a couple weeks ago. I emailed three professors at a nearby college, asking them what they recommended for technique and told them about how whenever I would practice Hanon, my hands, wrists, and arms would hurt. All three emailed me back, and two of them wanted me to go to the college and play so they could see what was wrong. I scheduled a college visit. I went there, talked to them, they saw what was wrong, and gave me suggestions. I went on the rest of my college visit, then went back to see them (because they had to start giving lessons, so I had to go). Eventually, I asked one of them if she would be willing to give me lessons, but she recommended me to the other professor. I asked him about it, and he agreed. So, a week ago, I had my first lesson with him. It was probably the best lesson I had ever had. He could tell me exactly what I was doing wrong, and he could demonstrate the correct way to play. He told me to go back to Clair de Lune, Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C#, and Bach's First Invention, and those are what I am still working on. My outlook on music has changed, and I realize that in order to get anywhere, I have to stick to songs and master them before moving onto other things. That college visit changed me. I realize now what I want to do with my life. I want to minor in music (for now), and pursue a career in optometry. I've held this thinking for about two months now (as opposed to two days when I would say I wanted to be something else). I'm dedicated to my music, and I want to live up to his expectations. I want to show him that I'm a student with potential (he's a very good pianist. He's toured all over Europe and the United States). The piano is all I am now. The only music I listen to is piano music (generally Chopin, with a bit of others thrown in for good measure). I practice at least three hours a day on the days I don't work. If I can't practice three, then I practice for two. On the days that I work, I analyze the music or I write down some theory (like the degrees of the scale) and memorize that while I'm at work. I practice it mentally.  I don't play sports and I'm not really involved in extra-curricular activities. I've been called lazy, because I apparently don't do anything, but I don't care. I want to be good at the piano, and I realize now that that is what I want to do. I don't care if I'm called lazy. I'd rather only play the piano, be called lazy, and get really good at it, as opposed to do a lot of things, be called active, and only be mediocre. The only things I have not sacrificed are my job, my education, and my family. I don't do anything with my friends anymore, generally out of the fact that we don't really share any common interests anymore. My best friend is that fine-tuned wooden instrument with 88 keys sitting in my living room. I love it... and it loves me.

[bon_bear]

  I obviously did...many times...
especially my technique... my relationship with practising technique is totally..how should i say it...there's really nothing that could pull us together... I noe it's a really bad thing...but I just couldn't stand it...I could not make myself play it every single practise time for 1 hour or so...I just couldn't stand that horrible thing...

That depressed/stressed my piano teacher alot in the past...she tried every single thing she could to make me practise my technique...but it only lasts for a few weeks or even once or twice and my interests will die...I made her yell at me and even hit me a little but it didn't work lol...

I feel guilty all the time...but I just couldn't force myself to do it...I like to play my songs...but I hate practising technique and yes I knoe it's bad....*nods*

Thank God it's over..that bloody nitemare is over...*sigh*

Elizabear~

[Mozartian]

When I took lessons from my teacher of last summer, my greatest fear was to let him down. He is such an amazing teacher, and was so unbelievably patient with me, I felt I didn't even deserve to get to take from him, and I definitely tried my darndest to improve as quickly or moreso than I should. I practiced 2-4 hours a day when studying with him.

The teacher before him though was extremely lax with me, and I didn't hesitate to slack on pieces or technical exercises I didn't want to do. I probably practiced about 1 hour most days, some days 2.

Now I'm on my own for a bit again, and it's been interesting to look at myself "like an outsider" and see how I'm practicing now in contrast to my practicing with those two teachers. Definitely has been different. Lately I've been averaging 2 hours a day, and I'm beginning to gain discipline over myself in regards to actually finishing pieces, working on the technical side of things consistently, and not trying absolutely every impossibly difficult piece I fall in love with. So I guess it's a good thing...

[penguinlover]

I guess I was that student.  I am pretty up front with everything I do.  With my students now, I always am asking them what their goals are, music goals, life goals, etc.  Their answers change the way I teach them.  That's what my piano teacher did for me. When I started piano as a child, I loved practice. I loved everything about the piano.  As I grew up, I guess it was music that kept me out of trouble. I practiced too much to get into things.  I was always one or two steps ahead of my teacher.  (How I long for a student like that now). Anyway,  I excelled at the piano.
    When I got to High School I had a remarkable piano teacher.  He also taught High School music.  I couldn't get enough,  there were no limits to where I could go.  How I longed to be a concert pianist.  By the time I graduated from HS, I was practicing up 3 a day on weekdays, 5 on weekends, and 8-9 during the summer.  I loved it!!!!!
    Well, my teacher had the foresight to ask me my goals.  He asked if I wanted to get married and have a family, or be a concert pianist.  He said it was an either/or decision.  Well, as a senior, I chose the family route.  I still minored in music in college, and did several recitals, but never became a concert pianist.  He was a wise teacher.  I love my family, and wouldn't change a thing.  Music is a very big part of my life still, but it is not all consuming like it once was.  Now that my kids are all in college themselves, I hope to have more time to devote to my piano.  My fourth child is excelling in music. I have to make sure I don't try to live my dreams through him.  Oh well, enough of this.  To answer your initial question:  I was disappointed at first, but am ever grateful for an insightful teacher.

[tiasjoy]

Have you ever had a student who seemed to have the potential to go as "far" as can be gone with the instrument, but simply did not want that ?

Just recently I've had a student who told me a few years ago she wanted to teach.  She was already sitting for exams so I encouraged her to at least achieve her grade 8 certificate. This year, with only months to go for her grade 7, she rang up and said "I still want to do the levels but I don't want to sit for the exam."  !!!!

And you had given this student every opportunity, and went above and beyond the call of duty as a teacher

  Yes.   And the sad result has been that I don't think I want to go 'above and beyond the call of duty' anymore, but just do my 'job' - teach them how to play the piano.

How did you or your student break the news ?

Over the phone.

Did you (as the teacher)  feel let down ?

  Yes.  But also concerned that she was making a silly mistake - suggested and encouraged by her equally silly and ill informed mother - "you can teach without qualifications! don't bother yourself!"  I'm done reasoning with unreasonable but well meaning parents.  Yes, it's true that you're ALLOWED to teach without even knowing how to play the instrument, but it was just one more year and she could have had something to at least compete a little with all those others who have degrees upon degrees ....

I think what saddens me the most is that I've spent years with this person advising her, but I can't tell her what to do - I've told her many times what I think she should do, but then it's up to her.   

My consolation is that it's never too late and once she's left home and the influence of her mother she can still sit for the exam later ... or perhaps she will have a successful teaching studio without any fancy piece of paper ....

[whynot]

I have noticed that people who are gifted in the arts tend to be broadly gifted-- to have potential in many areas (actually, m1469 is a prime example of this:  piano, singing, art, sports).  High achievers in the arts have potential to be high achievers in other fields because they know how to learn, and they know how to work.  So while it seems natural to us, seeing our students learning and being successful, to hope that they will go on to a performing career, they may have interests and tremendous potential in other areas that we know nothing about.  The time they've spent with us over the years will still have enriched their lives, but may not lead where we expect.   

I can't assume that just because a person with career potential isn't pursuing that particular career, s/he's making a bad decision.  When you invest in other people, you can get your heart broken, at least if you're a sap like me... I don't say this is the ideal reaction, and Bernhard has given some excellent advice on not allowing this to happen!  But heartbreak or not, the teacher's job is to teach and guide, to give what's needed when it's needed within the parameters of the relationship, and that's pretty much it.  I mean, that's a lot, but there is a limit to our influence-- and thank goodness for that, because none of us even knows what's around the bend in our own lives; we certainly don't know what's in store for someone else.  If a student is extremely interested in a career and just a little reticent because s/he doesn't know if s/he has the skills etc, maybe a little extra encouragement is all that's needed.  But if a student needs heavy persuasion to try for the career, s/he doesn't want it enough.  A life spent doing work for which we're unsuited is a very difficult one.  Even when our works suits us to a ground, it's pretty hard at times, so I think it's best to leave those long-term decisions up to the individual.  We can help them to become self-sufficient musicians, and we can give encouragement, opportunities, and honest feedback.  What they do with it is up to them.   

But... to better answer the original question, yes, I have let a teacher down.  And a teacher has let me down.  Sorry, no details, but it was pretty huge.  My luck turned after that, and now I have someone wonderful helping me.

[tiasjoy]

When you invest in other people, you can get your heart broken ... and Bernhard has given some excellent advice on not allowing this to happen!

Do you know the name of the thread or a link to it?  I'd like to read that.