Practice tips

[jimykid86]

Hi,

I am a beginner who is trying to self-teach and practice piano each day and hoping to become good enough to play some of the pieces I love.  Anyway, I have a tight schedule because of college's works, job and other stuffs.  I dedicate at least one hour a day to practice piano.  Each week I try to work on the same things:

1) Each week I choose a specific scale to work on... I use the scale book by Alfred and practice the "parallel motion in octaves", "contrary motion starting on the same note", "parallel motion in thirds or tenths", and "parallel motion in sixths"  for about 20 minutes.

2)Then I switch to Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist Part 1 and practice the repetitive patterns.  I try to practice three new patterns a week.  I am on 7th to 9th exercises right now.  I practice this for 10 minutes.

3)Next, I go to Czerny's School of Velocity Op. 299.  I am on exercise number 3 (the one with the arpeggios).  It's hard... anyway, I practice for another 10 minutes.

4)Finally, for the last 20 minutes, I  practice any song that I like.  I use to practice sonatina with fingerings, but now I practice some Final Fantasy's pieces instead since I like them more.

I wonder if this will get me good enough or am I just heading off to the wrong path?  I will get a teacher, but probably after I get a degree and a job.

Okay, now it's your turn.  Any criticism or advice/tips about my practice plan are welcome.  Thank you.

Jimmy

[gonzalo]

Hi,

I am a beginner who is trying to self-teach and practice piano each day and hoping to become good enough to play some of the pieces I love.  Anyway, I have a tight schedule because of college's works, job and other stuffs.  I dedicate at least one hour a day to practice piano.  Each week I try to work on the same things:

1) Each week I choose a specific scale to work on... I use the scale book by Alfred and practice the "parallel motion in octaves", "contrary motion starting on the same note", "parallel motion in thirds or tenths", and "parallel motion in sixths"  for about 20 minutes.

2)Then I switch to Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist Part 1 and practice the repetitive patterns.  I try to practice three new patterns a week.  I am on 7th to 9th exercises right now.  I practice this for 10 minutes.

3)Next, I go to Czerny's School of Velocity Op. 299.  I am on exercise number 3 (the one with the arpeggios).  It's hard... anyway, I practice for another 10 minutes.

4)Finally, for the last 20 minutes, I  practice any song that I like.  I use to practice sonatina with fingerings, but now I practice some Final Fantasy's pieces instead since I like them more.

I wonder if this will get me good enough or am I just heading off to the wrong path?  I will get a teacher, but probably after I get a degree and a job.

Okay, now it's your turn.  Any criticism or advice/tips about my practice plan are welcome.  Thank you.

Jimmy

you'll not go very far if you continue doing those things. It's the typical approach of a begginer to fall into Hanon's word of making you a virtuoso with 60 stupid exercises. Investigate about Hanon , scales and Czerny in the forum and you will understand what I am talking about

My advice is to stop doing exercises, get a teacher and play repertory.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Since you are a beginner Hanon will do no harm. Spend more time on Czerny etudes and use the pieces that you currently like playing sightreading. Practice more of the sonatinas, I recommend Kuhlau and Clementi. They improve your technique. However with this practicing you will may aquire bad habits, so yes, get a teacher. Hope this helps.

[debussy symbolism]

My advice is to stop doing exercises, get a teacher and play repertory.

Don't stop doing these excercises. Everyone needs to practice etudes, scales, etc. As well as some hanon for finger strenght. You can perhaps just play through an excercise slowly once and then move on to the other excercises. Hope this helps.

[debussy symbolism]

2)Then I switch to Hanon: The Virtuoso Pianist Part 1 and practice the repetitive patterns.  I try to practice three new patterns a week.  I am on 7th to 9th exercises right now.  I practice this for 10 minutes.

Jimmy

Make sure that you are very comfortable with them. Don't take more if you know that you can't do some or at a reasonable speed. Make sure to practice slowly until it is mastered. Since you are a beginner you need to get learn the work very good in order to procede. If it is sloppy, then you shouldn't move on to other work until you master the one that you need to master. Hope this helps.

[debussy symbolism]

3)Next, I go to Czerny's School of Velocity Op. 299.  I am on exercise number 3 (the one with the arpeggios).  It's hard... anyway, I practice for another 10 minutes.

Jimmy

Wow, these are very demanding to start with. Start with the much easier ones, those that are composed of about 10 bars to start with. These are already advanced. The beginning ones teach you the basics, scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. 10 minutes of practice on these isn't that helpfull. Devote alot more practice time here. Hope this helps.

[debussy symbolism]

4)Finally, for the last 20 minutes, I  practice any song that I like.  I use to practice sonatina with fingerings, but now I practice some Final Fantasy's pieces instead since I like them more.

That's good that you practice pieces, however for a better technique, I would have to suggest practicing the sonatinas that I mentioned before(I assume it is those.). Devote more time to them. Then sight read or practice other pieces.

Jimmy

[debussy symbolism]

The second part of the reply shouldn't be in quotes. Sorry.

[debussy symbolism]

I wonder if this will get me good enough or am I just heading off to the wrong path?  I will get a teacher, but probably after I get a degree and a job.

I understand that a tight schedule isn't comfortable. Take your time. Hope this helps. I appologize for the multiple posts.

[debussy symbolism]

The second half of the reply shouldn't be quoted. I really need to proofread my posts.

[I Love Xenakis]

The Bartok Mikrokosmos, Scarlatti Sonatas and the Liszt Excersizes I have found to be the most helpful in developing technique.  You might look into these.

[debussy symbolism]

The Bartok Mikrokosmos, Scarlatti Sonatas and the Liszt Excersizes I have found to be the most helpful in developing technique.  You might look into these.

Wouldn't jump in there yet. First off practice pieces and technique that gives the basics.

[jimykid86]

Hey you guys,

Thank a lot.  I am not a completely beginner though.  I start self-teaching piano like a year ago, so I know how to play a lot of easy pieces. 

Anyway, I will go back to play sonatina  then!  I will try to spend some extra time with the Czerny's School of Velocity  (like ten more minutes...).  I will look forward to some other exercises, but I will stick to the exercises I am practicing right now until I have more time on my hand.

Bottomline, thank a lot.

Jimbo

[gonzalo]

Hey you guys,

Thank a lot.  I am not a completely beginner though.  I start self-teaching piano like a year ago, so I know how to play a lot of easy pieces. 

Anyway, I will go back to play sonatina  then!  I will try to spend some extra time with the Czerny's School of Velocity  (like ten more minutes...).  I will look forward to some other exercises, but I will stick to the exercises I am practicing right now until I have more time on my hand.

Bottomline, thank a lot.

Jimbo

well , if you think you're on the right way this might change your opinion:

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,9104.msg92245.html#msg92245
(A case against Hanon and Pischna)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Speaking of Hanon: list of links by Bernhard)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2429.msg21061.html#msg21061
(Technical studies x pieces –  the genesis of Studies and how Czerny derived his exercises from Beethoven sonatas - why scales are useless and at the same time essential – Chopin x Kalkbrenner story – Unorthodox fingering for scales).

 

[dorie]

Gonzalo,

A year is still a relative beginner for piano sudy (I'm there myself).   I son't see any thing especially wrong with the things you are doing, although I think the balance is off.   It seems like you are spending a lot of time on technique and not enough on repetoire.  Based on my experience, your "exercises" should be less than a third of your time at this point, and you should also be working on several pieces of real music - perhaps one that you like and is easy for you to get the notes under your hand so you can work on phrasing and tone and other aspects of musicality, another that is a moderate challenge and then another that is a stretch and which is a longer term project.

Again though, a teacher would help you design a plan that would optimize your time relative to your goals.   Most teachers want an "at least" weekly meeting, but if  money is an issue for you, you might be able to find someone who would see you less frequently, more as a guide to your self study.

Make sure you have fun! 

[kau]

I also think that you should devote more time to pieces.  Pieces help to develop a tehcnic - actually I think they should be the main source for technic development.
It's good that you're doing scales. You could also learn chords and arpeggios of each scale - very useful.
Why are you trying to go through entire Czerny's op. 299? There are so many other etudes and exercises for that level - I think it might be more interesting (and useful) to try other composers, too. 
You could also try some Bach's little preludes. They're very useful and beautiful, too.

Enjoy the journey of reaching to your goal pieces! (I believe you are anyway =))

K.

[bernhard]

Start by reading Chang´s online book :

https://members.aol.com/cc88m/PianoBook.html

Then explore this very nice website :

https://www.practicespot.com

Finally have a look at these threads :

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133
(huge collection of links)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[knightingal]

Well, I don't know if this will help, but I personally find it easier to only practice a specific scale and piece a day, rather than a few.

Oh..and I love Final Fantasy pieces too haha 

[plunkyplink]

Looking at your practise routine, it seems you don't practise any triads, arpeggios or dominant 7th chords, instead you're practising exercises. Not good. I'd practise scales, triads, arpegios and dom, 7th or dim 7ths for 30 minutes, then 30 minutes on a specific song learning it thoroughly, to memorization and beyond, then, move onto thoroughly learning a new song for 25 minutes, keeping 5 minutes to maintain the already learned song(s).

I would chose songs that aren't too difficult, and aim for one from every big composer; Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, Scott Joplin, DeBussy, Haydn, Scarlatti, Brahms, Schmann, Schubert, etc. Then, I would carve out an additional 15 to 20 minutes, either away from the piano or at the piano to study theory, which will help a great deal in understanding how music is structured. I would also get a piano teacher, and have a lesson at least one hour a month. I'd skip the exercises altogether, I can't see how they would help, but if you enjoy playing them play them in your extra, or spare time. Once you aquire bad habits it's very hard to fix and slows down progress or will cause you to lose interest.

[emmdoubleew]

Liszt and Horowitz did excercises all their lives. Obviously it can't hurt.

[plunkyplink]

of course it can't hurt to play exercises, if you practise them in supplementation of practising scales, chords, triads, etc. The way he has his practise set  up, I doubt he even knows what a chord is, let alone how to play them. It seems to me he's practising these exercises in lieu of chord, triads, arpeggios practise, which is detritimental as songs are written based on chords, and scales. If he had a teacher, he wouldn't have gone off in this direction and wasted his time. He's willing to sacrifice an hour a day practising a crappy routine, why not make it a worthwhile routine.

[bernhard]

Liszt and Horowitz did excercises all their lives. Obviously it can't hurt.

No they did not.

Do some unbiased and impartial research on how exactly Lizst got his phenomenal technique (hint: it had nothing to do with Czerny).

David Dubal´s "Evenings with Horowitz" also has some enlightening information in this respect.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

of course it can't hurt to play exercises

It can hurt, it does hurt, and in many cases it will finish careers. Google "piano injuries" for the full picture (or talk to a doctor/ therapist which specialises in musician´s injuries).

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[steve jones]

Bernhard,

Are you implying that Czerny doesnt work? 


Jimykid,

I found myself in a very similar position mate, as Im self taught for one year. I started with Hanon and Czerny, but soon realised that it was not the way to go.

I have found that carefully selected pieces do much more, and are way more gratifying. Here is my current rep:

- Chopin Preludes 4 and 20 (helped with playing chords and using pedal, rubato etc)

- Bach Inventions 1 and 8 (hand independence, even passage work)

- Mozart K570 Mvt 1, Mozart K570 Mvt 3 (scale passages, fingering)

- Beethoven Op49 No2 (triplet argeggios, ascending scales)


Here you can see that by selecting pieces that are challenging in a wide range of technical areas, one can build a good all round technique without ever once doing a 'drill' type exercise.

And the best is, there is massive crossover potential!

For example, working on the Bach helped me with the counterpoint of the Beethoven and Mozart. Working on Chopin Prelude 20 has strengthened my RH and allowed me handle chords in other pieces. The scale practice in the Mozart has helped me immensely aswell. Now when I watch my RH playing a scale (120< ), the motion 'looks' and feels right (you know, when the hand seems to float over the keys in a wave like motion).


One tip that I wish I had learned eariler:

- Be sure to MASTER atleast some of the pieces that you learn

For quite a while I used pieces for technical aquisition but never really mastered them. Now I find it incredibly difficult to reach this stage. I get to a point where I can play the piece, but keep making mistakes etc. Learning how to iron out mistakes and developed a satisfactory interpretation is extremely important and is worth putting extra time into.

Nowadays, I trying to have 'technique' pieces going all the time, while also working to master one or two performance pieces.

Hope this helps, but dont forget, Im still a noob myself so I might be way off the mark!

SJ

[debussy symbolism]

No they did not.

Do some unbiased and impartial research on how exactly Lizst got his phenomenal technique (hint: it had nothing to do with Czerny).

David Dubal´s "Evenings with Horowitz" also has some enlightening information in this respect.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Really? To my information Liszt was a pupil of Czerny's and according to the written material of one of my Etude's book, Liszt highly approved of Czerny's method. I could be wrong if what I read is false, albeit it's not likely.

Best of wishes.

[debussy symbolism]

Czerny etudes can harm if done wrong yes, but where would I be without them. I am doing the Moszkowski's second etude(op.72) in G minor and it would not have been possible without Czerny, no doubt. Czerny also helps with for example Mozart's and Beethoven's pieces. I am studying Beethoven's Rondo a Cappriccio(Rage over a lost penny) and no way would I be where I am right now in the piece with out Czerny. The broken arpeggio on the second page for example. To my knowledge and experience as a student, I can safely say that properly done Czerny excercises are helpfull and if done improperly are not. Please comment.

Hope this helps.

[debussy symbolism]

I would also like to mention is that excercises in themselves are essential in that they provide the basic technique. I watched a documentary called "From Mao to Mozart" which talks about a violinist visiting Japan to observe their playing and give advice. The students spend the first couple of years practicing only technique, no repertoire. We can all safely say that musicians from Asia have a good technique. Perhaps Bernhard, you help aquire your students the same technique via pieces that include the same material? That is a possibility I guess, but there is just no way that the pieces cover all of the needed material, which the etudes do. Correct me if I misunderstood your approach as I am myself a piano student.

Best of wishes.

[bernhard]

I would also like to mention is that excercises in themselves are essential in that they provide the basic technique.

The basic technique for what?

Only a piece can provide a musical context and therefore give aim to technique acquistion. Take octaves, for instance. The octaves in Chopin´s Military Polonaise require a very different technique than the octaves in Schumann´s “Little flower”. Practising octaves on their own (like Hanon or Kullak) is not going to help either piece. Practising an octave “exercise” (like Czerny or Eggeling) is going to develop the proper technique to play the Czerny/Eggeling exercise since it will supply its own musical context (in the case of Czerny usually a dreary musical context) The truth of the matter is that playing the octaves in Chopin´s Polonaise is not going to help the octaves in Schumann: you will have to start work anew there.

Often, saying that one should not practise exercises is misconstrued as the idea that one should not worry about technique. This is not so. Technique and deep investigative technical work are paramount. Without (proper) technique it is impossible to play. So a large proportion of one´s practice must be devoted to technique acquisition. But ultimately this cannot be acquired through exercises (mostly a 19th century idea whose roots were in the training regimen of the Prussian army – where the “no pain no gain” philosophy developed). It must be acquired by working on a piece, because only then the musical context will be appropriate for the technique being developed, and guide the technical work being undertaken.

Someone mentioned that it is simple laziness that stops people from dong exercises. I assure you that the opposite is true. Getting your technique from pieces is one of the hardest jobs ever (both physically and mentally). My students are often dismayed when they realize what is expected from them in this department. Believe me, they would rather do Hanon or Czerny.

I watched a documentary called "From Mao to Mozart" which talks about a violinist visiting Japan to observe their playing and give advice. The students spend the first couple of years practicing only technique, no repertoire. We can all safely say that musicians from Asia have a good technique.

I assume you meant China instead of Japan. Do Asian musicians have a good technique? It depends what you call good technique. The great majority of musicians all over the world have terrible technique. I watch and listen to them play the most exquisite beautiful music and I am in pain from just watching their inappropriate and injury prone body motions.

Take Glenn Gould or Alfred Brendel, or Cortot, musicians of the highest caliber, producing some of the most beautiful sounds ever heard on the planet. All injured, all fighting their own bodies by using unnatural misguided movements hammered in them through misconceived practice.

Then again, let us eat dung: one billion flies cannot be wrong.

(Thanks, Thalbergmad, for this quote on reply # 35 here:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,12293.msg131585.html#msg131585)

there is just no way that the pieces cover all of the needed material, which the etudes do.

It is actually the opposite: there is no way etudes can cover all the material needed to play the piano repertory.

 

Correct me if I misunderstood your approach as I am myself a piano student.

It does not (should not) matter if you are a student or one of the Masters of the Universe. Ideas should stand on their own and not require for support the (supposed) authority of whoever seconds them.

Besides we are all students (I certainly am).

I must confess at this point to be slightly bored with this subject. I have written extensively about it and provided enough musical examples to make it clear. I am still waiting for a convincing counter argumentation. I direct you now to the relevant threads.
(See next post)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2714.msg23310.html#msg23310
(how to teach Bach´s invention no. 1)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7246.msg72307.html#msg72307
(how to outline invention 14)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2384.msg20598.html#msg20598
(how to practise the Giga of Partita 1)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3056.msg26761.html#msg26761
(memorising the Allemande of French suite no. 1)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8451.msg85545.html#msg85545
(scheme for learning prelude 2 WTC 1)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4016.msg36601.html#msg36601
(directions for interpretation of Chopin prelude no. 4)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9964.msg101147.html#msg101147
(General discussion on interpretation – detailed example: Prelude no. 20)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4713.msg44552.html#msg44552
(how to master Chopin´s waltz in Am)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,9717.msg99292.html#msg99292
(detailed discussion of Scarlatti sonata K32)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2893.msg25500.html#msg25500
(how to teach op. 142 no. 2 - Burgmuller studies – Lots of practice tricks – the pragmatical x logical approach using Boolean algebra and word processing as an example)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9815.msg172240.html#msg172240
(Session breakdown of Schumann´s op. 68 no. 30)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8981.msg91081.html#msg91081
(repertory x purely technical exercises to acquire technique)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8417.msg85259.html#msg85259
(when is a piece finished – why technique and interpretation cannot be divorced)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1867.msg14268.html#msg14268
(Getting technique from pieces – several important tricks: hand memory, dropping notes, repeated note-groups)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2429.msg21061.html#msg21061
(Technical studies x pieces – the genesis of Studies and how Czerny derived his exercises from Beethoven sonatas - why scales are useless and at the same time essential – Chopin x Kalkbrenner story – Unorthodox fingering for scales).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2526.msg21829.html#msg21829
(how to organise piano practise in short/medium/long term – Principle of memory retention – Principle of 15 minute sessions – stopping when you achieve your goals. Teachers should teach how to learn)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2599.msg22431.html#msg22431
(How long does it all take? – self-taught students - the cake analogy - criticism of ABRSM for expecting people to reach grade 8 in 10 years - learning is not gradual  comparison with reading - different ways of learning - how to learn to drive a car -   the dispersive method of teaching - 15 list to “disperse” learning).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2615.msg22522.html#msg22522
(Piece analysis – delay going to the piano and spend most time analysing – Comparison with the process of film making)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2720.msg23353.html#msg23353
(How to practice aim and accuracy – looking at the LH and giving verbal instructions to the RH – Full discussion on left and right brain).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2802.msg24467.html#msg24467
(When to join hands)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2864.msg25252.html#msg25252
(how everyone in the forum practises – the scientific method to decide what practice routine is good and which is not. Comments on Chang book)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2916.msg25572.html#msg25572
(Bad habits when playing/practising)


https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3039.msg26525.html#msg26525
(how big are your hands, and does it matter?  7 x 20 minutes – exercise/activities to strengthen the playing apparatus – ways to deal with wide chords – the myth that Richter was self-taught – 3 stages of learning – Example: Chopin militaire Polonaise - scientific principles for testing practice methods – Example: Prelude in F#m from WTC1 – when to join hands and why HS – practice is improvement – the principle of “easy” – Example: Chopin’s ballade no. 4 – repeated groups)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3064.msg26866.html#msg26866
(Repeated note-groups applied to Gottschalk)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3085.msg27140.html#msg27140
(Hands together: when and how – dropping notes)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3371.msg30141.html#msg30141
(zoom-zoom – all about speed playing – example: 3rd movt of Moonlight)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3625.msg32673.html#msg32673
(PPI –  comparison with body building – brief mention of movement and intellectual centre – comparison with babies walking and coma patients- muscle tension and nerve inhibition – how to investigate and test practice ideas – How to teach by using progressively difficult repertory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4123.msg37829.html#msg37829
(How to investigate the best movement pattern: Example Scarlatti sonata K70 – How to work out the best fingering. Example: CPE Bach Allegro in A – Slow x slow motion practice – HS x HT – practising for only 5 – 10 minutes)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4244.msg39203.html#msg39203
(How long to practice – having an aim, achieving it and moving on – How to define aim)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4322.msg40260.html#msg40260
(mental practice)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4429.msg41217.html#msg41217
(differences between practice and performance)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php?topic=5995.msg58928#msg58928
(when to work on expression - change focus every 2 minutes – comparison with plate spinning)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3085.msg44855.html#msg44855
(Hands together – dropping notes – when to learn HT and when to learn HS)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4954.msg46883.html#msg46883
(mental practice)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4851.msg47341.html#msg47341
(Practising for speed – Example: Beethoven Op. 49 no. 2)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7810.msg80415.html#msg80415
(How to organise the breaking down of a piece over several days. Examples: CPE Bach Fantasia, Blow Sarabande, Chopin Cantabile; Chopin Scherzo no. 2)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7872.msg79188.html#msg79188
(How to plan your work for the next five years)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7664.msg77057.html#msg77057
(How to break a piece in sessions – Example: Invention no. 1).

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,9285.msg94312.html#msg94312
(outlining: example – with score – Chopin etude op. 25 no. 1)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2313.msg19807.html#msg19807
(Speed of scales – the important factors in speed playing - an alternative fingering for scales).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2533.msg21955.html#msg21955
(an structured plan to learn scales and arpeggios – includes description of repeated note-groups and other tricks -  complete poem that inspired La fille aux cheveux du lin)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2619.msg22756.html#msg22756
(unorthodox fingering for all major and minor scales plus an explanation)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2701.msg23134.html#msg23134
(Teaching scales – the cluster method and why one should start with B major).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2758.msg23889.html#msg23889
(scales & compositions – the real importance of scales is to develop the concept of key, not exercise)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2920.msg25568.html#msg25568
(how to play superfast scales)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2983.msg26079.html#msg26079
(Best order to learn scales – what does it mean not to play scales outside pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3499.msg31548.html#msg31548
(using scales as the basis for free improvisation)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2619.msg104249.html#msg104249
(Scale fingering must be modified according to the piece – Godard op. 149 no.5 – yet another example of the folly of technical exercises)


https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3561.msg31700.html#msg31700
(Questions about Bernhard’s method – Bernhard’s answers – mostly about the 7 X 20 principle, how do you know when you mastered a section, when to use the methods, and when they are not necessary – investigating the reasons for difficult)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4689.msg44184.html#msg44184
(Bernhard answers questions and elucidates further about: 20 minutes – practice starts when you get it right – definition of mastery : learned – mastered – omniscience – Aim for easy – final speed in practice must be faster than performance speed – Example: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2 – outline – repeated note groups – HS x HT)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4710.msg44538.html#msg44538
(Bernhard explains once more about 7 x 20 minutes – Progress is the ultimate decider – How to break a piece in practice sessions – Example: Satie gymnopedie – importance of planning – aim at 100 pieces per year – Example: Bach Cm WTC 2 -)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4750.msg45125.html#msg45125
(more details: learned – mastered –omniscience – why repertory must be paramount – how to work on 20 pieces per month – a case for easy repertory – importance of discipline and of having a plan – analogy of mastering a piece and making wine – musicality is ultimately good taste – Example: Beethoven op. 49 no. 2- A list of progressive repertory to lead to Rach prelude op. 32 no. 5 – mastery is when it is easy)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4797.msg45744.html#msg45744
(No skipped steps – Bernhard enlightens further and tells the usual places where students go wrong – Ht x HS)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4858.msg46087.html#msg46087
(Paul’s report on B’s method. Feedback from Bernhard including: HS x HT – Example: Lecuona’s malaguena – 7x20 – need to adjust and adapt – repeated note-groups – importance of HS – hand memory – 7 items only in consciousness – playing in automatic pilot - )

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5177.msg49229.html#msg49229
(more on 7x20 – what it means to master a passage)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5298.msg50376.html#msg50376
(alternative to the chord trick – Rhythm variations  - repeated note-groups – starting with the difficult bars – how to break down a piece in sessions – ways to tackle speed that do not involve the chord trick)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2948.msg25927.html#msg25927
(Czerny x Scarlatti to acquire technique – Ted gives an excellent contribution)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4082.msg37362.html#msg37362
(one cannot learn technique in a vacuum. At the same time one cannot simply play pieces – comparison with tennis)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4385.msg41226.html#msg41226
(technique is personal and relative to the piece – Fosberry flop – the best books on technique)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4734.msg44770.html#msg44770
(how to acquire virtuoso technique – aiming at 100 pieces in five years)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4880.msg46339.html#msg46339
(definition of technique: quote from Fink, Sandor and Pires – Example of the A-E-A arpeggio)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – why technique cannot be isolated from music – analogy with warmup in the martial arts – dynamic flexibility and co-ordination – how to do high kicks without warming up)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5375.msg51272.html#msg51272
(Defending technicalexercises – two different philosophies regarding exercises – chopstick analogy)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7175.msg114163.html#msg114163
(wrist action – the movements that should be avoided when playing and the movements that should be used).

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8112.msg113575.html#msg113575
(Scarlatti x czerny to acquire technique – quotes by Sankey and Kirkpatrick)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,13208.msg143740.html#msg143740
(an account on how Cramer’s technique deteriorated with age)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time – or not -  summary of arguments and many relevant links)

Just the tip of the melting iceberg.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[berrt]

The basic technique for what?

Only a piece can provide a musical context and therefore give aim to technique acquistion.

Öööö... strictly consistant, that would mean even learning a piece will not give you the technique to play any other piece, so pianistic progress is completely impossible (i feel that i do make progress - by learning pieces, my teacher never assigned exercises).

B.

[bernhard]

Öööö... strictly consistant, that would mean even learning a piece will not give you the technique to play any other piece

Yes, exactly. If we want to be radical this is the conclusion. Each piece has to be approached anew, as it were.

, so pianistic progress is completely impossible (i feel that i do make progress - by learning pieces, my teacher never assigned exercises).

Er... this conclusion does not follow from the statement above.

However it will not stop musical progress because as you amass repertory, the range of your repertory will be your measure of progress. So, even with radicalism in mind, there will be progress (and faster and more substantial than with exercises, anyway).

However, radicalism is not necessary. Most composers have style. Mozart sonatas are not that different in musical figurations. Bach inventions and Scarlatti sonatas do become easier as you learn three or four of them. Moreover, many composers imitate or are influenced by others, so there is (limited) transference – and we must watch out for it, or we will end up playing Mendelssonhn op. 19 no. 1 as a Bach Fugue (as Glenn Gould did).

Moreover, most music is highly formulaic. So although you may have to start form scrath a new piece, most likely it will be only a section (the one that does not comfrom to the formula) that will need special treatment,

Still, the bottom line remains that unless you have a musical direction, you cannot acquire proper and useful technique. Hanon and Czerny are not musically neutral: they insist on a particular musical context (“play as mechanically and unmusically as possible these exercises”), a context that is particularly useless, unless you wish to play things like Ibert´s “The Sewing Machine”, which directs you to play it as mechanically as possible. Then again, it will save time to go straight to Ibert if that is the technique you wish to acquire.

Ultimately it is impossible philosophically and logically to play without musicality (and the same applies to technique).

(in the same vein it is not possible to be apolitical because this is in itself a political position).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.