Any Students out there that Compose?

[tomingram]

Hey.  I'm 15 and have been playing for about 7 years.  I've decided to try composing some of my own music.  I've never done this before, and have never had any instruction on it.  I did however, buy a book on it that I am reading.  I was wondering if there are any other students out there that are about 13 or older that have done some composing.  If so, I have some questions for you.  What do you do to get some melodys running through your head? go to a park?  lay on the couch?  what works best for you?  also, how hard is it to start actually writing the notation out, as far as finding the right cords and stuff?  I already have some melodys running through my head, but havn't sat down and tried to write them out yet (I will tomorrow!).  How long does it usually take you to get a good portion of a song composed?  If you have any songs that you have written, I would love to see them, you can email them to me at tomingram@tconl.com  
Thanks!

Tom

[xenon]

Composing definately requires lots of creativity .  One can base the foundation of the work from an existing piece as an inspiration, like a theme and variations on a theme by... (Paganini, for example).  It is definately helpful to have some sort of inspiration.  Also take a look at the theme of the composition.  If it is triumphal, you would want certain types of passages to reflect that.  Schubert got the inspiration for "The Trout" while sitting by a river observing the fishies.  One can get all sorts of ideas based upon their setting.

It is recommended that you take a look at some counterpoint and harmony notes/textbooks.  That will aid you in your conquest for good thematic and harmonic materials.  There are many things that should be avoided (based upon 18th century counterpoint) that still applies today.  But with the uprise of 20th century music, it is hard to determine what the boundaries are.  It would be nice if I could put a couple long glissandos in my compositions for Counterpoint class and avoid all the work .  Ah well...

As far as notation is, sit at a piano and work out the melodies and harmonies.  You can also get a computer music notation software (such as Sibelius 2 or 3).

How long it takes to compose depends on skill as a composer (Being able to write down what you hear at an instant), your commitment/devotion, and complexity of the piece, such as rhythms, textures, # of instruments, etc.

I am in the middle of composing a concert suite entitled "Attack of the Domo-kuns", which is some sort of account for a fictional war epic.  It is being written for symphonic band.  It has 5 movements:

1) Declaration of war
2) Call to Arms
3) March to the Citadel
4) Fall of the Empire
5) Victory

When I get a good portion done, I'll send it to you

[eddie92099]

https://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_score.pl?scoreid=31361

Ed

[minimozart007]

Hi.  Right now I'm composing a set of 24 cello preludes.

[pianobabe56]

I *cough* "compose" if someone is willing to give it so sophisticated a term, but it's nothing amazing- certainly not a 5-movement cello suite or symphony piece. I usually write small songs that fit mostly into the "New Age Classical" category- small songs that inspire me. That's originally what got me started composing- I couldn't find anything that I wanted to play, and I got so fed up with it, that I sat down and started writing my own.

Usually, I just sit down at the piano and start dinking around- no purpose in mind, just letting my fingers try out new harmonies that eventually develop into melodies, and I let the inspiration take over from there. 

[minimozart007]

Good approach.  Have you heard of Becky Archibald?  When I met her at my conservatory, she told us that she uses random 5 note patterns as the basis of some of her compositions.  Cool huh?

[pianobabe56]

Can't say I have heard of her, sorry! But I have heard of composers using phone books to develop melodies! 

[galonia]

I was still in primary school when I started to "compose" - I would make up short little melodies with simple accompaniment.  There was no development of any sort - usually it'd be 8 bars and that's it.  My teacher encouraged me to play these little things for her, then eventually she asked me if I'd like to try to write them down.

When I got to high school, I started writing more complex stuff.  I was reading about Bach and started writing Canons.  I still write Canons for fun, just short ones.  But I had also progressed in my harmony/theory studies, so I understood about keys, cadences, modulations, structures.  Also, other instruments!  In Year 10, I won the school's young composer competition, and one of my works was played at the Year 10 graduation ceremony.

It's hard to say how long it takes to compose something.  I think my brain is working on it all the time, then when it's fully formed, I'll sit down and notate it all out.  When I have to do any harmony/counterpoint exams, the way I do it is this: you usually get given a part already, and I sing that in my head several times, then I start listening to harmonies with the given part, and I try several of these harmonies out, until I find one I quite like.  I then play this over and over in my head until I'm sure of it.  Then I basically write it out by dictating it to myself like a big multi-part melodic dictation.  I think when I compose, I use a fairly similar method; I try things out in my head until I like it, then I pull it all out of my head and dump it on paper.  Hehehe... I think some of the other candidates are a bit put off though, because I'll sit there staring off into space for 10 or 15 minutes, then suddenly there is a mad scramble as I scribble it all down.

How easy is it to notate it all out on paper?  This is something to practise - it's like a visual artist, whose skill is in putting on paper the vision they have in their head.  I notice that if I've been composing a lot during a period, or even if I've just been doing a lot of harmony/counterpoint exercises, it's a lot easier to write my own music out.

[rhapsody in orange]

Hi.
I am currently about to take the ABRSM grade 8 theory examination, and there's a component which includes melody writing. When I first started out, I merely stared at the 2 bars of given opening without a single idea how i should continue. Well now it's somewhat getting better, I'm actually coming up with short melodies. However, is there anyone who can give advice on good melody writing? Like the elements of a good melody etc. And any advice on composing atonal music? I seem clueless at that too. Thank you and all your help would be greatly appreciated.

[bernhard]

Hi.
I am currently about to take the ABRSM grade 8 theory examination, and there's a component which includes melody writing. When I first started out, I merely stared at the 2 bars of given opening without a single idea how i should continue. Well now it's somewhat getting better, I'm actually coming up with short melodies. However, is there anyone who can give advice on good melody writing? Like the elements of a good melody etc. And any advice on composing atonal music? I seem clueless at that too. Thank you and all your help would be greatly appreciated.

20 Rules to Write Memorable Melodies

1. Centre on a pitch.

This means that you must choose a specific pitch to be your “home” pitch. Now start and end your melody on this pitch, and also make the notes of the melody play around that pitch, landing on it form time to time. This pitch does not need to be the tonic. In fact that is how modal melodies work: they are centred not on the tonic but on the final of the mode.

2. Make sure you end up at home.

Always finish on the home pitch (remember it does not need to be the tonic). Otherwise your melody will sound “unfinished”. Finishing on the home pitch gives a sense of resolving tension and completion.

3. Stay within the scale.

If you use notes that do not belong to the scale, they will sound wrong, out of place. Only the best composers can get away with using chromatic notes (that is, accidentals).

4. Use the big five.

Stick to the five most important degrees of the scale: The tonic, the supertonic, the mediant, the dominant and the submediant (C – D – E – G – A in C major). This creates a pentatonic sale. Because you are avoiding the subdominant and the leading note (F and B) you will not have dissonances, so whatever you play will sound good.
(this is the equivalent of playing only the black keys in the piano. Can you see why?)

5. Find the hook.

This is also called the “motif” – a bit of melody that “hooks” the listener, and that is repeated throughout the music.

6. Create variations.

Once you have a motif, you can vary it by inversion, augmentation, and  retrograde. You can also develop the motif by playing it in different degrees of the scale.

7. Write in four, eight or sixteen.

Have your melody to be 4, 8, or16 bars long. Even if you have a long melody, try to divide it into segments 4 bars long. For instance a 32 bar melody could be made up of eight 4 bar phrases.

8. Make it move.

Music only exists in time. A single note is not music. That single note must go somewhere. You make a melody move either by rhythm (you play the same note with different rhythms) or the melody itself moves by going from one note to another. Most of the time you combine both movements.

So, if you want to create an upward movement, make the last note be at least a fifth higher than the first note. Likewise, to create a downward movement make the last note at least a fifth lower than the first note.

The famous Brazilian composer Heitor Villa Lobos created his melodies by making sketches of the mountains he could see from his window and making the notes follow his sketches.

9. Take small steps.

Singable, lyrical, melodies have small steps between notes. The more the melody jumps around the more difficult it is to sing or play.

10. Stay in range.

Try to keep the lowest and the highest notes in your melody within the space of an octave and a third (otherwise it may become impossible to sing).

11. Avoid unsingable intervals.

These intervals are particular difficult to sing, so try to avoid them:

i.   Octaves
ii.   Fourths
iii.   tritones
iv.   sixths
v.   sevenths

12. Keep the rhythm simple.

Unless you are very experienced, stick to quavers and crochets and avoid syncopations.

13. Stay in time.

If you are a beginner stick to the simple key signatures and avoid the irregular ones (5, 7 & 9). You should be able to tell straightaway where the beats of your melody are.

14. Set up and resolve tension.

If your melody has two parts, make the first part set up a tension and resolve in the second part. The most common way to do that is to finish the first part on any note except the tonic (usually the dominant), and then on the second dpart to fininsh on the tonic.

15. Set up a call and response.
Set up a phrase on the first part of the melody , and then “answer” it on the second part. With practice you will know how to do naturally. But to start with, think of a real question and its answer: “How are you? I am fine, and you”
 
16. Establish symmetry.

Make the second part of your melody a mirror image of the first. You can do that with the rhythm alone, the pitches or both.

17. Balance repetition and variety.

There should be plenty of repetition in music. But too much can get boring.

18. Follow the chord progressions.

Fit the notes of the melody to the notes of the chords in the harmonic progression you want to use.

19. Follow the form.

After you choose a form, use it as a mould for the melody.

20. Follow the words.

Fit the melody to the rhythm implied by the words, and also to the rise and fall of the language. (e.g. questions go upward, so should the melody).

And finally: Rules exist so that they can be broken.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rhapsody in orange]

Wow thanks a lot Bernhard for that informative post of yours. It certainly gave me some ideas as to how to work on a melody. Hmm how about a modulation in the melody to make it less boring? What are the keys that are usually used for modulation? Dominant, minor and relative minor?

[bernhard]

Wow thanks a lot Bernhard for that informative post of yours. It certainly gave me some ideas as to how to work on a melody. Hmm how about a modulation in the melody to make it less boring? What are the keys that are usually used for modulation? Dominant, minor and relative minor?

You are welcome.

You can modulate to any key. However, in the beginning it is better to stick to the following.

First have the cycle of 5ths your mind:

F - C - G - D - A - E - B - Gb - Db- Ab - Eb - Bb - F

Now pick any key, say A major. You can modulate safe and nicely to the keys to the left and to the right. D and E.  This is because these scales share six notes out of seven.

So always think in groups of three adjacent keys. Another example, in C major, use F - C - G. Plus their relative minors. So if your main key is C you can modulate to A minor (relative of C major), F major (and D minor) and G major (and E minor).

You can also modulate to the tonic minors: If you are in C major, modulate to C minor (and its relative Eb major).

This gives you 12 keys to modulate to. Most composers will not avail themselves of all these choices. Limitiation is a good thing.

But again, this is just a beginner's crutch. Composers can do really surprising modulations to very distant keys.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rhapsody in orange]

Gee thanks a lot! Really appreciate all that help. Shall keep all those points in mind the next time i attempt a melodic composition =) Have a great day!

[bernhard]

Gee thanks a lot! Really appreciate all that help. Shall keep all those points in mind the next time i attempt a melodic composition =) Have a great day!

You are welcome.

[zebra555]

I wonder if anyone help me with a query I have about a post from the past. I’ve been going through many of Bernhard’s posts on this forum which are proving to be extremely helpful in learning piano.  Below is one section about composing that I’ve puzzled over the meaning:

4. Use the big five.

Stick to the five most important degrees of the scale: The tonic, the supertonic, the mediant, the dominant and the submediant (C – D – E – G – A in C major). This creates a pentatonic sale. Because you are avoiding the subdominant and the leading note (F and B) you will not have dissonances, so whatever you play will sound good.
(this is the equivalent of playing only the black keys in the piano. Can you see why?)

Can anyone explain what his point is about the equivalent of playing only the black notes? I can’t see why this would be - and I’d really appreciate help with this.  Thanks.

[visitor]

I wonder if anyone help me with a query I have about a post from the past. I’ve been going through many of Bernhard’s posts on this forum which are proving to be extremely helpful in learning piano.  Below is one section about composing that I’ve puzzled over the meaning:

4. Use the big five.

Stick to the five most important degrees of the scale: The tonic, the supertonic, the mediant, the dominant and the submediant (C – D – E – G – A in C major). This creates a pentatonic sale. Because you are avoiding the subdominant and the leading note (F and B) you will not have dissonances, so whatever you play will sound good.
(this is the equivalent of playing only the black keys in the piano. Can you see why?)

Can anyone explain what his point is about the equivalent of playing only the black notes? I can’t see why this would be - and I’d really appreciate help with this.  Thanks.

less applied theory and familiarity w tradition of a particular style is needed for forming the harmonic underpinning , the more you avoid minor second and their inversions into M7 the easier it is to move around since there's a bit more involved in dealing w diminished triads and those sharing common tones w them.

[zebra555]

Thanks for replying. I should have mentioned that I’m a fairly new beginner and I’ve just started doing grade 5 music theory - so I may be asking an odd question in relation to the point about the black notes. I was mostly interested in an explanation about this point, and it may well be that you’ve answered it, but as a learner I don’t understand it. Maybe as I learn more about music theory I will understand, or perhaps others could provide some information on this too? Thanks in advance for any help with this.

[visitor]

Thanks for replying. I should have mentioned that I’m a fairly new beginner and I’ve just started doing grade 5 music theory - so I may be asking an odd question in relation to the point about the black notes. I was mostly interested in an explanation about this point, and it may well be that you’ve answered it, but as a learner I don’t understand it. Maybe as I learn more about music theory I will understand, or perhaps others could provide some information on this too? Thanks in advance for any help with this.

it's harder  for it to 'sound wrong' if you stick to the black notes, less knowledge of how chords work is needed, so a lot of stuff will sound ok if you do that.

[xdjuicebox]

It's a pentatonic scale - say we're in the key of F#, the black notes would then be F#, G#, A#, C#, D#

Notice how this corresponds to the 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6th degrees of the scale. If you transposed everything up (or down! Tritonic symmetry!) a tritone, then you would get C, D, E, G, A, which are the 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6th degree of the C major scale.

Pentatonics tend to sound good because they're the "core" of the scales (for example, dominant and subdominant modes, Mixolydian and Lydian respectively, alter the 7th and 4th degrees of the scale respectively), so it's easier to not screw up playing those

Honestly, you can pretty much write anything you want these days

As Leonard Bernstein pointed out in "The Unanswered Question," the first five distinct pitches in the harmonic series form a pentatonic scale (with that weird A half-sharp approximated to A)

[zebra555]

Ah, thank you. That makes sense - I had missed the significance of the fact that it’s a pentatonic scale, which I haven’t learnt about yet.  I’ve checked this out and I see what this is getting at now. Appreciate the replies.