Building stamina

[kghayesh]

My teacher tells me, and i know, that i need to have more stamina when playing powerful pieces at high speeds.
For example, when playing the Revolutionary Etude, i start powerfully and with all LH notes crystal clear, and then gradually as i move on, my left wrist becomes more and more tense until i can't play like before, so notes become more blurry and unclear and i try to hide that by using more pedal, which is of course a very unmusical thing.

This situation becomes more and more worse if i am playing in a recital or something, I won't be able to play all the programme because near the end, my muscles would be so tired.

So, could anybody please tell me any guidelines or anything that i can do to build more endurance and stamina ?

[zheer]

 You have DYSTONIA, that means faulty muscular tension patterns, ie muscular mis-use. 

   You must concentrate your thoughts on the means whereby you can gain what is required and not on the end sought.
   Haw can you know if what you are doing is correct if the person teaching you does not know any better, also haw can you know what is right and wrong if you have never experienced what it feels like to play correctly. You must learn a process of inhibition of the unconciously performed acts.

[pianistimo]

playing pieces that require stamina sort of build it for you - the more you play them.  but, you don't want to overdo, either!  as zheer was saying - to relax and relax and keep relaxing until you are playing with the least amount of effort to get the same sounds you get now.  and to refine your pedalling - asking your teacher and experimenting with the sounds to get a clearer sound. 

maybe practicing easier music (breaking up your practice sessions with the etude) when your hands start getting tired.  (not even sore)  or taking a break and coming back.  you don't want to hurt yourself by trying to get a result too fast!  and, if your teacher is unable to help you refine your technique - try a few lessons with someone else to compare!  it might be you, it might be the technique, it might be a combination.  just like there are doctor's diagnosis - you need a good teacher to accurately diagnose what's going on.

[lagin]

My teacher is working on the exact same thing with me right now -- endurance (stamina).  She has me doing hours of technical exercises which are okay, because I actually have to learn them anyway for my piano exams, so not a waste of time.  What I mean is stuff like 4 note chords in each hand 2 octaves up and down the piano in every key, scales, arpeggios, ect.   But it's alot of work if you don't have to do it anyway like I do.   But consider the 4 note chords because they are the true strength building beasts of technique.  What I mean is C E G C in both hands, then E G C E in both hands, then G C E G, ect. until you've done 2 octaves, and then you come back down.  I do each chord twice in each key.  Gradually you can do more and more at one sitting. 

If your teacher is against technical exercises (some people advocate that all can be learned with repertoire alone), then you might want to try what my teacher suggested to me.  In practice play each piece through 3 times without stopping.  (Of course, you may not be able to do it on the first few tries.  You don't want an injury.)  If you get tired, then slow down the tempo for the last one, or even the last 2 times through.  When you perform for your teacher, let alone an audience, that takes energy.  The crowd takes some of your energy, and even more if you are nervous, like me!  But if you can get it so you can play your piece 3 times through at home without an audience, then playing it only once through, even with an audience, will become a snap!  This is also helpful if you happen to be performing on a piano with a tougher touch than yours.

My teacher always says, if there is a problem, increase the demand for that area/piece, so when you play it normally/once through, then that seems easy in comparison.

But DON'T over do it!  I've done that and been off piano completely for sometimes even a whole week.  If you can only play through it 1 and a half times at half speed then stop there for that day if you need to.  Maybe the next day you can play it through 1 and 3 quarter times at half speed, and the next day 2 times through.  Build up slowly.  The same goes for the chords, if you choose to do them.  Don't do all the keys the very first day you start!  The key is to stop before you need to.  You want to build strength, not tear tendons.  We all know when we are pushing it too far, and if we don't, believe me, you learn fast!  If in doubt, take a break.  If you get tired, then you will start to tense up.  Then you muscles are no longer being built up, but are in risk of being hurt, which is the opposite of what we are trying to do.  There is a healthy pushing it ( a tiny bit more each day or even every few days), and then there is a dangerous stubborness which leads to injuries.  What helped me is to remember that if I push on when I am tense, I am really not building any more muscles that way anyway, so there is really no point to it!  That helped me to stop, because I'm one of those stubborn types, that thinks I'm macho and can hack it .  Believe me, I learned the hard way when to stop!

I'm not going to re - read through all of this, so if anything doesn't make sense, or if you need clarification, just be like, "hey, lagin, your not making sense here  ."

Know that you are not alone! 

[zheer]

  as zheer was saying - to relax and relax and keep relaxing until you are playing with the least amount of effort to get the same sounds you get now.

  I would use the word freely, rather than in a relaxed way.

[kghayesh]

Hi lagin,
I think piano playing is not about building endurance just by playing meaningless technical exercises so many times. I am not saying they are not important, but overdoing them will not bring you any good as playing there will be just mechanically.

My teacher tells me that my problem will be solved by playing with correct movement and relaxing my body when necessary. That is because i play all the time when i am so tense.

I think that's right because you can't just go to the gym and workout to build your muscles to play fast passages. It just doesn't make sense. Only correct movements are needed to play well, IMO.

[yuc4h]

If only correct movements were required to play well, how come it's much easier to play fast passages up to speed on an unweighted keyboard?

[kghayesh]

Of course not only correct movements are needed to play well.

What i meant by playing well is that to have staimna to play fast passages with the same speed and power to the end. You can play fast passages on any keyboard but if you played it with wrong movements, you will feel fatigue and tension in your muscles soon.

[alanteew]

I've been running into that exact issue and on that same piece, the Revolutionary. I have found it helpful to walk away from it for several days at a time. But I've really come to a different conclusion, since I'm a middle-aged father of three (with a day job): Practice less.  

Although I can play the piece, I'm not sure I should at this stage in my life since I can't make the time for the practice regime it takes. For now, I'll invest that time in my girls.

[awesom_o]

My teacher tells me, and i know, that i need to have more stamina when playing powerful pieces at high speeds.
For example, when playing the Revolutionary Etude, i start powerfully and with all LH notes crystal clear, and then gradually as i move on, my left wrist becomes more and more tense until i can't play like before, so notes become more blurry and unclear and i try to hide that by using more pedal, which is of course a very unmusical thing.

This situation becomes more and more worse if i am playing in a recital or something, I won't be able to play all the programme because near the end, my muscles would be so tired.

So, could anybody please tell me any guidelines or anything that i can do to build more endurance and stamina ?

It's a hard piece! Watch as everything you described happens to Yundi... the first prizewinner of the 2000 Chopin International Competition
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

I would recommend in order to build the stamina required for this piece, that you practice it under tempo but rhythmically, quietly but with good voicing and focus to the tone, and  without pedal but molto legato!

[j_menz]

It's also only 2 1/2 to 3 minutes.  I don't think it's so much a matter of stamina, as of finding an ease of movement. If you run out of puff, it's more likely you are doing something wrong than that you don't have the endurance to complete it the right way.

[bronnestam]

I suggest you practice "reversed" a lot. Start with the last section, then choose an earlier section and so on. My own experience from fatigue is that it comes when you don't know the piece enough, that is, you get unnecessarily tense.