Dont you just love it when... (Scale Technique)

[steve jones]

... you figure something out and all of a sudden you 'get' it 

Iv been stuggling for months figuring out a good motion of the RH ascending C Major scale. I could play it fine at low speeds, but anything around 120bpm or more just didnt happen. I couldnt seem to join the sets, there was always a noticable gap between.

This has been driving me around the twist. Iv been watching loads of vids trying to see how the big guys do it, been practicing like crazy (well, more like lots of quick sessions).

And finally I figured something out that has made a mnonumental difference. Ironically, its something I touched on before but never quite got it...

I was trying to play with my wrist totally parallel to the keyboard (like you could have set a spirit level on it). Suddenly I noticed that if I turned my wrist a few degrees to the right that I could play the TO C Major really fast without any noticable breaks! Its still a little uneven but I feel comfortable that I can sort that without to much trouble.

But for now I am like a pig in the proverbial brown stuff 

[bwv772]

I was trying to play with my wrist totally parallel to the keyboard (like you could have set a spirit level on it). Suddenly I noticed that if I turned my wrist a few degrees to the right that I could play the TO C Major really fast without any noticable breaks! Its still a little uneven but I feel comfortable that I can sort that without to much trouble.

Which hand to you turn a few degrees to the right?

[steve jones]

The RH.

[bwv772]

The RH.

Thanks! I'll give it a shot when I get back home.

[bwv772]

Which hand to you turn a few degrees to the right?

Doh! Doh!

I think I need glasses! I just re-read your original post. Says right there, "RH ascending"...
Sorry for the dumb question. I'll go back in hiding now.

[steve jones]

Yeah give it a try, it has helped me no end. Think of 'leaning' in the direction of the scale. I guess that is the problem with the 'sets' method - learning to play the set does not necessarily help you play that set connected within a scale. I was trying to play the scale in the same way as Id been doing the sets, with the hand totally horizontal, just lifting the wrist slighty.

With this method I do the same but I also turn my hand slightly in the direction of the scale, and it helps with the connection.

[celticqt]

That's funny - when I started studying with my current teacher, this was the first thing he taught me about scales.  I've been playing scales for years, but this technique makes them so much easier and smoother.  It works with your LH also. 

[steve jones]

I guess thats one of the big benefits of having a teach - they can just tell you all these little nuggets without you having to spend ages working them out for yourself!

Makes me realise why I need a good teacher.

[celticqt]

Well, when he showed me this, I just looked at him open-mouthed and said, "Why didn't anyone tell me this before??"  And he said, "Because you've obviously never had a conservatory-trained teacher like me."  (He's just a little bit arrogant.) 

[rc]

Yeah, I remember spending a few good, infuriating hours trying to figure out the best way to play scales... Even worse was legato arpeggios.

Late last night I had my own little 'eureka!' with regards to sitting posture. I finally found a good way to sit that doesn't make my back tense up so much... Had to do with sticking my ass out more and leaning my upper torso a little more forewards. Now I don't have to be a hunchback.

 

[steve jones]

Well, when he showed me this, I just looked at him open-mouthed and said, "Why didn't anyone tell me this before??"  And he said, "Because you've obviously never had a conservatory-trained teacher like me."  (He's just a little bit arrogant.) 

You'll have to fill us in on any other little tip bits he gives you  Might save me an age!

[spirithorn]

 Suddenly I noticed that if I turned my wrist a few degrees to the right that I could play the TO C Major really fast without any noticable breaks!

Seems that I read an account by one of Liszt's students to the effect that he played scales this way.  Pretty high recommendation.

[steve jones]

Tis mate, I finding scale work a lot more managable now.

Dont get me wrong, I dont have this technique completely sorted, not by a long stretch. But now I feel like I know what I have to work on. Before I just fundamentally had no clue about how to play fast scales.

Hopefully with some practice I will be able get some pace AND keep it even. Then it will be 'Good afternoon Mr Chopin Op27-2' haha. Iv wanted to play this piece for ages, but the fast scale run has put me off.

[pianogeek_cz]

... you figure something out and all of a sudden you 'get' it 

Iv been stuggling for months figuring out a good motion of the RH ascending C Major scale. I could play it fine at low speeds, but anything around 120bpm or more just didnt happen. I couldnt seem to join the sets, there was always a noticable gap between.

This has been driving me around the twist. Iv been watching loads of vids trying to see how the big guys do it, been practicing like crazy (well, more like lots of quick sessions).

And finally I figured something out that has made a mnonumental difference. Ironically, its something I touched on before but never quite got it...

I was trying to play with my wrist totally parallel to the keyboard (like you could have set a spirit level on it). Suddenly I noticed that if I turned my wrist a few degrees to the right that I could play the TO C Major really fast without any noticable breaks! Its still a little uneven but I feel comfortable that I can sort that without to much trouble.

But for now I am like a pig in the proverbial brown stuff 

Same thing happened to me today - I was plowing through Chopin op. 28 no. 24 RH and met the first RH run, F major ascending. And Whoa! It just was there... I had a problem with RH ascending scales for quite a long time - uneven and such, but this wrist tilt works awesome. It took me just around five minutes to master the scale at the speed required... Same with the C major a few bars later.

I think I'll have some more of 28/24.   

[steve jones]

28/24 is ruff stuff. I cant wait until I get good enough to play those kind of pieces.

[pianogeek_cz]

*nods* Yeah, ruff stuff... Actually, the LH is far more difficult than the RH, although it may not seem so... The figuration is devilish and there's 4 pages of it, all the way. But once you get the "shape" of the figuration under your fingers, it's not that bad...

As to scales: I experimented a bit with the wrist tilt and found the angle which seems to work best (C, F major RH up at 200 bpm... ) - it's about 30 degrees slant. Don't know why it works, but I'll research it a bit tomorrow. (Will be trying to apply it to HT scales... let's see...) There's a nasty HT D major scale in the 3rd movement of the Grieg concerto towards the end - from E to a4, in some 2 seconds' time... I think I'll have a go at it...

WoohoO!

[steve jones]

Wow, 200bpm is pretty damn fast! I can play the individual sets at this speed, but no way can I connect them. Things start getting messy with me above 120bpm. I can play a RH C Major at 150bpm, but its not under control.

I guess this is where years of practice comes in.

As for this technique, I think it works because it allows the thumb to drop down onto the next key (without passing under the hand) much easier than with the hand totally horizontal. Not sure though. I can say though that connecting the sets is vastly easier using this method. I wonder if this is what the big guys do? When I watch them play, passing the thumb never seems to be such a great deal. But when I then sit at the piano, Im stumped to how they do it!

Think its time I watched some Kissin in super slow mo