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Topic: Thoughts on a fingering.  (Read 2179 times)

Offline e60m5

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Thoughts on a fingering.
on: February 22, 2006, 04:15:08 PM
Cross post.

I have mixed opinions about this one. I know full well that there is no "right fingering" and no "wrong fingering", but conceding that does not preclude in itself the discussion of various merits and weaknesses of proposed fingerings. :)



The danger is of course unduly accenting the thumb on the off-beat, but I am of the opinion that this can be overcome through sufficient usage of arm movement to generate the leftwards run, minimising the amount of thumb weight that would be used. Any thoughts? Or alternatives?

I'm terribly unfond of the "standard" fingering of this passage.

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #1 on: February 22, 2006, 05:08:39 PM
I, personally, would use the fingering written, because the thumb accents will be tough to eliminate, and they are (for me at least) much easier to leave out with the use of the pinky.... I'm not sure why, not to mention I just avoid any unnatural stretching positions of the hand (even if the stretching is a bare minimum) and promote the use of the pinky in general....

Really - whatever works for you, later I'll take a look and see if I find anything better.

Great piece you're playing there.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #2 on: February 22, 2006, 05:14:43 PM
can you give the name of the piece and the measures?  was thinking it looked like a liszt ballade.  sometimes you can use the pedal and pretty much do what you want, but smoothness is achieved by working the fingerings out.  was thinking of looking through my books.  sometimes comparing editions helps.

if it is liszt, you might try cortot fingerings.

Offline m

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #3 on: February 22, 2006, 05:21:50 PM
can you give the name of the piece and the measures?  was thinking it looked like a liszt ballade.  sometimes you can use the pedal and pretty much do what you want, but smoothness is achieved by working the fingerings out.  was thinking of looking through my books.  sometimes comparing editions helps.

if it is liszt, you might try cortot fingerings.

It is Lizst Sonata, I think third page.

E60M5,

I'd suggest you play the second passage with fingering written. For me it gave better momentum. It might take some time to get used to it. If after a couple weeks you still think it is uncomfortable, then start thinking of changing it.

For the first, just use what you feel works better for you.

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #4 on: February 22, 2006, 05:26:34 PM
can you give the name of the piece and the measures?  was thinking it looked like a liszt ballade.  sometimes you can use the pedal and pretty much do what you want, but smoothness is achieved by working the fingerings out.  was thinking of looking through my books.  sometimes comparing editions helps.

if it is liszt, you might try cortot fingerings.

It's the Liszt sonata, and quite close to the first page (probably the 2nd, or the 1st)

Offline e60m5

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #5 on: February 22, 2006, 05:31:04 PM
I find that using the hand position given by the red fingering leaves the hand turning more inwards than using the hand position given by the black standard fingering. The standard fingering requires a position of the 5th finger resulting in a more outward turning of the hand. This makes it less natural to pull down the keyboard with the arm - not impossible at all, but less natural in my opinion. The thing that I prefer about the red fingering is that the position it leaves the hand in on the run down the keyboard is such that it allows a much more natural leading of the arm, which is where momentum comes from.

I'm normally a fan of using the 5th finger - hence my preference to use it on the way up, where 5 is on the C. However, on the way down, using 5 on the B means a change in hand position from 5 on the B to 1 on the A, which isn't my favourite position switch when it is required from one white key to an adjacent white key. I much prefer switching from a black key to a white key on downward runs, as is evident in the red fingering.

(sha, how's Wesleyan? do you know a Danica P?)

Offline m

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #6 on: February 22, 2006, 06:18:25 PM

I'm normally a fan of using the 5th finger - hence my preference to use it on the way up, where 5 is on the C. However, on the way down, using 5 on the B means a change in hand position from 5 on the B to 1 on the A, which isn't my favourite position switch when it is required from one white key to an adjacent white key. I much prefer switching from a black key to a white key on downward runs, as is evident in the red fingering.


Try it without the hand moving outwards, but with thumb getting underneath the palm and reaching the 5th as close as it is possible, and then just move the hand on a next position.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #7 on: February 26, 2006, 01:01:44 AM
Notice the CBGE just before your fingering begins? This defines the pattern that we have to go through. Using LH 1234 on these notes we notice that the 5th then must strike a B. So almost we may accent this B with a sharply played but withdrawed 5th, then we move back up to a similar pattern but reversed with EAC and the fingering 421.  Notice how the 3rd is left out when we move up. Notice also how the 4th does not have to move, it holds position about the E.
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Offline mike_lang

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #8 on: February 26, 2006, 03:12:39 AM
.

Offline maxy

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Re: Thoughts on a fingering.
Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 10:18:13 PM
interesting fingering (red).  in a way it simplifies things: chords on RH always with thumb on LH.  If the chords fell on-beats, it would be great.  Unfortunately it's not the case.  With the suggested fingering(black), LH thumb falls on-beat and that's pretty good for syncopation effects.  I think it would be harder to get good rythmic vitality with 3rd finger on-beats.

 The red fingering is good, but the context makes the "true" fingering a bit better IMO.

Man, that piece is great!

 
 

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