question about sigh read

[ccr]

Hello,

  I'm a very bad sight reader, so I'm trying to improve in this area. Currently it's very, very difficult for me to read both hands even in simple pieces, so I'm reading only one hand at a time.

  I would like to think that by practicing in this way I can improve to a level in which I can start reading both hands, but would like to ear opinions from people with more experience in this area.

  Do you think it's a good method, or should I try to read always both hands at all costs?

  Thanks.

Carlos CR

[henrah]

I find sightreading two hands is quite hard too, so I came up with a solution. Instead of just sightreading one hand - which can become too easy at times - instead learn one hand, say the melody hand, and then sight read the accompaniment or vice versa if you chose to learn the accompaniment first. I did this with Chopin's Prelude No.6 and it has definately helped. I learnt the LH (melody) first, which was pretty simple, and then put it together slowly with the RH whilst sightreading it. It's quite an easy piece to do it with as the main chord that gets used has only one change for each note and it's quite easy to see what to play next. Although when you come to the part with an acciaccatura in the RH that might need some practice (just to get the fingers right).

Hope it helped,
Henrah

[ccr]

I find sightreading two hands is quite hard too, so I came up with a solution. Instead of just sightreading one hand - which can become too easy at times - instead learn one hand, say the melody hand, and then sight read the accompaniment or vice versa if you chose to learn the accompaniment first.
...

  Interesting aproach. But do you think it improves your sight reading skills?

  I mean, you are still sight reading only one hand.

  It's true that it's more difficult  because you are doing more at a time, but I'm not sure all of these tasks develop sight reading skills.

  Of course only experience can tell if it's a good way to improve,  so i guess my question is: Are you improving your sight reading skills with this aproach?

  Thanks

Carlos CR

[ccr]

Hello again,

  I will try to explain a little better my doubts.
 
  My theory is that when a task is too complex to do it at once (and for me sight reading  really IS) you have to subdivide in smaller tasks. When you get good at each of these subtasks your brain starts to have more spare time and you can do other subtasks in paralell.

  So in order to sight read there are basically two subtasks that I have to learn.

  - Read the rhythm
  - Read the notes

  And I see two aproaches:

  1 - Read both hands but only rhythm,  read both hands but only notes, and then trying to join both tasks.  When I try to do both things at a time, I can only do this very slowly (10-20 bps or slower) and I tend to loose the rhytm sensation. And it's tedious.

  So I noticed that I could try a second aproach:

  2 - Read rhythm and notes but only one hand at I time. In this way I can more or less read both things.

  The problem is that I'm not sure that improving in reading only one hand will get me were I want (reading both hands) or on the contrary will make me develop bad habits.

  What do you think?

  Thanks

Carlos CR

[freakofnature]

I doubt that you'll be making much progress in sight reading when you read only one hand at a time. Your thought about the two main tasks seems reasonable, so I would try it this way: Choose any two keys on the keyboard (one for each hand) and play the rhythm of the piece (both staffs) - only pay attention to the note values. When you are good at it, try playing it with the correct keys...

I don't know if this would really help, but it is worth a try... Maybe someone else may give more advice!

[pianolearner]

I found this book to be extremely helpful.

Guided Sight-reading by Helen Lockhart

Start with book 1.

Each Section of the book involves hands seperate excercises that you need to master before attempting the hands together excercises at the end of the section.

[00range]

Bernhard on sight reading:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2506.msg21686.html#msg21686

Edit: Looks like the links are broken... anyone know how to fix them?

[cfortunato]

I found Progressive Sight Reading Exercises For Piano by Hannah Smith to be very helpful.  I consists of several hundred short exercises that are to be played only once. It starts extremely simply and ends intermediate.

[ccr]

Bernhard on sight reading:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2506.msg21686.html#msg21686

Edit: Looks like the links are broken... anyone know how to fix them?

Hello,

  don't worry for the broken links, previous to this post I've used the search function extensively and it's very probable that I've already read the links you provided.

  I posted my question not only to get opinions of more experienced people, but also in the hope that somebody have followed the same method before and can report on the results.

  Thanks

Carlos CR

[ccr]

I found Progressive Sight Reading Exercises For Piano by Hannah Smith to be very helpful.  I consists of several hundred short exercises that are to be played only once. It starts extremely simply and ends intermediate.

I found this book to be extremely helpful.

Guided Sight-reading by Helen Lockhart

Start with book 1.

Each Section of the book involves hands seperate excercises that you need to master before attempting the hands together excercises at the end of the section.

  Hello,

  thank you both for the books recommendation, but I've one question before following that route. If it's possible I prefer to play music better than exercices, so the question for those that already have used these books is if you think you improve more with them than reading real music?

  Why I ask? not only because it's more funny with real music, but because I find easier to aurally know if I've played correctly with real music than with exercices. So if I can't expect to improve faster with exercices I don't think they are worth the time.

  What do you think?

  Thanks again

Carlos CR

[nicolaievich]

I think sightreading is a matter of recognizing patterns. It's impossible at the same time to read note by note, know which note you are playing, know the duration, and even more... to do it with two staves!
You have to learn to recognize patterns, I mean, if you see there is a dotted crotchet with a semi-crotchet, you already know how the rythm will be, then it's only a matter of pressing the correct key, for this you have to recognize the patterns of height in the stave, ecc...
When you deal with chords is the same, if you want to sight read a series of chords you don't read note by note, instead you read the whole chord, again a pattern.

I am not a teacher, I just learned to sightread alone, and after a long time sightreading I noticed that it is only a question of pattern recognition.

To give you an example, take a look at the Mozart Sonata in C, K.545, the first two measures... the LH makes broken chords. A C major chord in the first measure, starting in the middle C, so ready, in this measure you already know what to do with LH, you can play it wihout reading it and you have to deal with the easy melody in the RH. In this case you read blocks of four crotchets in the LH.
Then in the 2nd measure it's a bit harder, but you have to go on reading in blocks of four crotchets, the 2nd block is again a C major chord, so, forget it.... and so on.

My advice is to sightread both staves at the same time... if you find this difficult do it veeeeery slowly, and try to read blocks of notes, not note by note. It's useful to listen to pieces and at the same time read the sheet music. For your case it would be good if you do it with slow tempos, and be sure to know exactly which note or chord is being heard.

I hope this helps...
Good luck!

[rc]

I've been working at sightreading for probably a good 4 months now (taking much longer that I expected ). I began with Howard Richman's sightreading book, and somewhere along deviated to just practicing on a hymn book. The progress has been gradual, but I've come a long ways from being a cripple .

You could probably get better by starting out one hand at a time. It would develop accuracy of note recognition, finding the notes by feel and reading ahead, so long as you focus on these things (by not looking at the keyboard, for example). But wouldn't do too much for reading two clefs at once, so eventually you should graduate to some exercises for reading both hands.

I would recommend isolating note recognition from rhythm, so doing away with time until you're good at recognizing the notes on the page and getting your fingers to those notes on the keyboard. For reading both clefs, try doing alternating hands per beat (L, R, L, R...), then both hands (LR, LR...), always aiming for accuracy.

I prefer to work with real music, but wouldn't want to learn sightreading on repertoire I would eventually want to learn, which is why the hymnbook is so good. Even if you're unfamiliar with the pieces, you will know by the sound if what notes you hit sound right or wrong.

Someone once also recommended using a hymbook and adding different voices as you progress... Ex. Playing only two voices (soprano and bass), then adding alto and tenor as you go. I think that would also be a good approach.

[pianolearner]

  if you think you improve more with them than reading real music?

  Why I ask? not only because it's more funny with real music, but because I find easier to aurally know if I've played correctly with real music than with exercices. So if I can't expect to improve faster with exercices I don't think they are worth the time.

  What do you think?

  Thanks again

Carlos CR

In my case the answer is yes. As someone said, they help identify patterns and/or intervals that may not be immediately obvious when reading 'real' music. The question is, how do you read music now? Do you think in terms of note names or intervals?

[tac-tics]

When you say sightreading, are you talking about sightreading at or near full speed of the song? Or are you talking about reading notes at a more basic level?

If you plan to memorize a piece, learn each section one hand at a time and read INTERVALS not note names. You should be able to tell if two sucessive notes are are a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, or octave apart without knowing which clef or key you're working with.

[cfortunato]

  thank you both for the books recommendation, but I've one question before following that route. If it's possible I prefer to play music better than exercices, so the question for those that already have used these books is if you think you improve more with them than reading real music?]]
I found Ms. Smith's book more useful than reading regular music because

a) It's gradually progressive, so actually do sight-read the exercises flawlessly.

b) Because the exercises are short and only done once (only doing them oonce is important, since that's the idea) it's very fast to get through.  5 minutes a day.

[cfortunato]

[[I prefer to work with real music, but wouldn't want to learn sightreading on repertoire I would eventually want to learn, which is why the hymnbook is so good.]]

Hymn books are good practice, since almost NOTHING is harder to sight read.  I used to make a point of sightreading whatever they sang in church that Sunday.  Haven't done that in a long time, but it was good.

[lostinidlewonder]

Target sight reading in 2 different ways and always Both Hands no matter what.

Target Speed
Target Accuracy

To target improving your speed take EASY sheet music for you, play it at tempo, neglect rhythm, dynamics. Don't stop if you make mistakes or repeat yourself, keep going! This should make your playing maybe sound nothing like what is written, but that isnt the aim. Play just the notes, play them all at the same rate, dont play faster or slower. say to yourself KEEP GOING, dont stop. The fingers may be incorrect, but try to keep it as controlled as you can.

To target accuracy take out HARDER music or music at your standard. Play it super slow, play with 100% accuracy. Neglect rhythm, dynamics as well. Take as long as you want so long you play all the notes that need to be played together, together.

About 10 mins on each every day would be enough.

Do this for a month and you'll see yourself definatly get better.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7466.0.html

[bon_bear]

Hey!~
For me personally, the key to sightreading well is:

Practise makes perfect
You take a whole bunch of sheet music and u play them.

I don't think this is any "big" help but i suggest u go grab some pieces that you feel comfortable sightreading first and then go down to the harder ones once u think it's good enuf.

I'm not sure if it helps but it definitely helped me
Elizabear~

Oh...and THINK AHEAD...lol that's what my music teachers always say.

[tw0k1ngs]

I think sightreading is a matter of recognizing patterns. It's impossible at the same time to read note by note, know which note you are playing, know the duration, and even more... to do it with two staves!
You have to learn to recognize patterns, I mean, if you see there is a dotted crotchet with a semi-crotchet, you already know how the rythm will be, then it's only a matter of pressing the correct key, for this you have to recognize the patterns of height in the stave, ecc...
When you deal with chords is the same, if you want to sight read a series of chords you don't read note by note, instead you read the whole chord, again a pattern.

I am not a teacher, I just learned to sightread alone, and after a long time sightreading I noticed that it is only a question of pattern recognition.

To give you an example, take a look at the Mozart Sonata in C, K.545, the first two measures... the LH makes broken chords. A C major chord in the first measure, starting in the middle C, so ready, in this measure you already know what to do with LH, you can play it wihout reading it and you have to deal with the easy melody in the RH. In this case you read blocks of four crotchets in the LH.
Then in the 2nd measure it's a bit harder, but you have to go on reading in blocks of four crotchets, the 2nd block is again a C major chord, so, forget it.... and so on.

My advice is to sightread both staves at the same time... if you find this difficult do it veeeeery slowly, and try to read blocks of notes, not note by note. It's useful to listen to pieces and at the same time read the sheet music. For your case it would be good if you do it with slow tempos, and be sure to know exactly which note or chord is being heard.

I hope this helps...
Good luck!

I was about to say the exact same thing. It is not sight-READING as much as it is sight-recognition. When I sight read pieces (I can practically play liebestraum by sight) I do not look to see what note it is; instead, I look to see approx. where it is, and I read what type of note it is subconsciously (whether it be 1/8, 1/4, 1/16, etc.). Once I have the general idea of where it placed on the staff you can generally predict where the composer is going to go with his piece based on the chord quality and general sound of the piece. That in general makes reading chords and his melody extremely easy, and the rest is just the simple melody.

If that doesn't help, try listening to an mp3 of the song, that way when you play you can generally know where to look on the staff to achieve the same tone (assuming you have good pitch recognition).

[clef]

Hello,

  I'm a very bad sight reader, so I'm trying to improve in this area. Currently it's very, very difficult for me to read both hands even in simple pieces, so I'm reading only one hand at a time.

  I would like to think that by practicing in this way I can improve to a level in which I can start reading both hands, but would like to ear opinions from people with more experience in this area.

  Do you think it's a good method, or should I try to read always both hands at all costs?

  Thanks.

Carlos CR

Its important to be able to play well with both hands, so you should try to it with two staves when possible, of course if you are really bad then maybe you should go back to basics and just use one hand, but try to get going with both soon

[00range]

I posted my question not only to get opinions of more experienced people, but also in the hope that somebody have followed the same method before and can report on the results.

  Thanks

Carlos CR

I've used Super Sight-Reading Secrets by Howard Richman for the last month or so, and I have definitely noticed improvement from struggling with note recognition and barely being able to sightread the simplest of pieces to being able to easily recognize most chords and it has made memorization vastly easier because I don't have to constantly look to the score.

[ccr]

Well,

thanks everybody for your advice.

To summarize, I totally agree that I don't have to aim to note by note reading, but to pattern recognition. The longest the pattern I can recognize the better I will sight-read. From that perspective, it seems totally logic to use training books because they use the same patterns that real music but introduce them gradually (more difficult to overload and get tired   )

I've got the Richman's book an their plan seems very logical. Specifically I like the gradual building of basic habilities  but I'm a little dissapointed with the lack of reading material. I've looked at the Bach chorales he recommends but at this point they are very out of my sight-reading habilities.

So I think I will order some sight-read training books. Looking up the ones recommended here I have come across the Boris Berlin "Practical Sight Reading Exercises For Piano Students Book" series. It looks good, anybody have them and can comment?

You can see one page in:
 https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_inside.html?cart=334976809530122381&item=1584629&page=01

I couldn't found anywhere the Hannah Smith book, but found a page where they say the exercices are "..all within white-key five finger positions..". so probably it's not very good for developing the hability to reach the right key without looking.

Also, from reading all the advice posted here I've noticed that I lack other skills that are necessary for getting real good, like relative pitch, or the hability to ear the music by looking at the score. At this moment, when I read a score I don't ear a thing 

Woah, there are really many many things to learn and so little time.

Thanks again everybody

Carlos CR