frustrated with my teacher

[lilypiano]

Is the Pathetique really very difficult?  My teacher gave me the second movement to learn.  I told her I wanted to learn the whole sonata, but she  thought I wasn't capable of it.  I don't think I want to believe her.  She also thought I couldn't do a Rachmaninoff prelude (Op. 32, no. 5.)  I took lessons from a different teacher last semester because I live in New Orleans, and he said the Rachmaninoff prelude would be great.   He taught me to be much more independent in learning new pieces and encouraged me to teach myself. (he was a very good pianist too)  My teacher now shows me rhythms before I have a chance to try them and writes in the sharps or flats from the key signature.  I don't know how that could be helping me get better.  it's almost condescending,actually.
  What do you think about jumping to more advanced pieces vs. learning more gradually?  I think a more difficult piece would be more inspiring and exciting.  I would work harder on it.   
Here is what I've played so far
Chopin Nocturne in C# minor, Posth.,
Bach Inventions Nos. 1,3, 4, 13
Chopin prelude no. 4
Beethoven Sonata op. 49 no. 2, 1st movement
some sonatinas
Swipesy, Scott Joplin
Bartok, Evening in the Country
Schubert Waltz in A minor

I would also probably learn the third movement before I tried the first, so I'll probably be better by the time I try it.   I don't really care how long it would take either.  Why would starting on a more difficult piece be so bad? especially if it's more motivating.  I almost want to quit.  i've already paid for the semester, though.

[zheer]

Well for a start , you must remember that teachers dont know everything, if i were in your situation i would work on the second MVT, of the pathetique sonata, but in my spare time i would also work on the other MVT. This way you can prove your teacher wrong by , playing him/her what she/he thought you were not able to play. Personally i think you shoud not get too angry, because he/she might have your best intrest at heart, sometimes  its good to learn to walk first, then run, and finally if you are luck,fly.

   Anyway haw you progress is all down to you, play everything in privat. Infact its a good idea to sight read through as many pieces as possible

[tac-tics]

Tell your teacher about what you're unhappy with. Tell her you have more potential than what she has assigned to you and that you understand theory past the point of the key signature. If you're lucky, she might even compromise with you.

Then, at the end of the semester, consider getting a new teacher. If your current teacher is really that upsetting, then you should drop her as soon as you can.

[m1469]

Well, there are a couple of slightly different but related issues going on at once here. 

1.  Discerning what kind of learning provides the most personal improvement (musically and humanly), with ideally the most efficient use of time and energy.

2.  Finding the right teacher.





1-  When you feel truly inspired about something, the fire is just plain burning hotter than when you do not.  So, although a piece may be quite a challenge, and require more from the person in the process of learning it, the inspiration that can come from working on a piece that you truly love and feel passionately about, can serve you quite well if used in the right way.

The tricky thing with taking this route is if the piece is a challenge to your entire being, not just your physical capabilities with music, it will require growth from you as an individual as well as your pianistic demonstrations.  A person's identity can become completely wrapped up into one piece, and if the demonstration of it gets stuck anywhere along the way, so does the idividual's growth -- and vice versa --- and the fire may just go out. 

So, I think it is important to have a variety of other things going on simultaneously in order to keep it all going.  And when I say a variety of other things, I don't just mean other pieces.  I mean different levels of pieces that require different things.  Some of those things should be stuff that comes quite easily for you, for example, if you are good at slow lyric pieces, there should be something like that in the mix to give you a boost of confidence when you need it.  Also, it would be helpful to throw a couple of short (I mean one or two pagers) into the mix that deal with some of the aspects of the particular "project" piece that you are working on, in a slightly easier or at least shorter version of what you might encounter in your project piece (in this case, the Pathetique).  This builds confidence and skill in addressing problems in the project piece.

Some people need to have big project pieces going in order to feel a sense of direction in their growth, and for those people, I say go for it.  But, don't neglect the other aspects that need your focus.  At some point, these project pieces will probably serve one better when relearned (from scratch) at some later date, when one has grown and has a different concept of that piece, as well as ability to demonstrate that concept.

2-  If a student begins to have ideas about what s/he would like to be doing, irresepective of what a teacher may say or include in the student's education, there is really no reason a student cannot do these things on the side.  The problem arises when these side-projects become all-consumming for the student, and get in the way of the teacher's wishes.  In this case, the student has four choices :

a)  Quit the project.

b)  Talk with current teacher again regarding projects, and find out how helpful the current teacher will truly be for the student along these lines.  If teacher is of little help and quitting the project is not an option, then

c)  Find a new teacher who understands what you want and will help you get there. 

d)  Work on your own.


Each of these choices have consequences and working on one's own can be one of the most difficult options. 

These are my thoughts on these subjects.  Perhaps you wanted a more direct answer, a yes or no regarding that piece, but to be honest, this is my most direct answer to that question.  The bottom line is, you have to answer your own question.


m1469

[lilypiano]

thank you for answering.  I think I will work on that piece and other shorter pieces,  and get a different teacher after the semester is over.  I think sometimes teachers want their students to learn the way they did, whether it's for the best or not.  She said that trying to learn something more than the next step up in difficulty wouldn't help me improve.
  I think tackling more difficult pieces can build confidence and be very satisfying. Learning the Chopin Nocturne last year was a challenge, and it made me better.    It also gave me a chance to really "live" a piece and fully appreciate the beauty of it. It took me about 4 months to really play it well, so it was a part of my life for a while.   
I also think I might want a new teacher because I think I have a prettier tone than her.  That might sound a little weird, but I really like the way I play better.  I'm afraid she might be a bad influence because she doesn't play very sensitively.   

[rc]

I think sometimes teachers want their students to learn the way they did, whether it's for the best or not.  She said that trying to learn something more than the next step up in difficulty wouldn't help me improve.

I would be wary of signs of an inflexible teacher too...

It sounds like you're new with this teacher, who probably has no idea what you're capable of but is assuming the norm (writing in accidentals, showing you things you already know). It's probably hard to tell what a pupil does/doesn't know, all coming from different backgrounds. It would be better to see what a pupil is capable of before showing.

In the meantime, it might be a good idea to just speak up when she starts showing you something you already know. Better to go through the akwardness of having to interrupt and say "please stop writing the accidentals, I know how a key signature works..." than to let these things go on. That's the idea of good communication, and will make lessons more enjoyable and productive.