What to do about a student?

[ingagroznaya]

I have been teaching this twin girls for the past four years. They are about 11 years old.
One is doing very well, another - not so. Both are very bright, but so much attitude...
The first girl, who is doing well is fine right now. The second seems to ruin my day every 6-8 weeks or so. I have spoke to the mother, the girl and mother apologized. Discussion with mom usually fix things for a while, but then it starts again.

I have let one of my adult students "go" last week. After years of teaching, I decided that dealing with unruly student is a waste of my energy, that could be going some place more productive ( like another student who actually wants to learn ).

I do not understand where the attitude comes from. Mother seems to want them to learn and piano lessons are not an option for this girls ( at least for now ), it's a requirement. They sure do practice. The problem is the second girl feels she is not as musical as the first and she constantly compares her self to her sister. She does not want to continue with lessons and she takes all her frustration out on me. She is very polite when talking to her mom about piano lessons.

After dealing with so many families, I truly believe everything that comes out from a child's mouth was first said by a parent.  Adults just hide things better.
When this little girl can't find her book, she shouts:" I hate cleaning people!". Today during the lesson:" I hate piano lessons!". My problem is -- the father hearing all this hysterics from the next room and saying nothing. Mother usually acts the same. I have 41 wonderful students, who are happy to take lessons. We all have our ups and downs, but no one "hates" or behaves like this. " What? Do I have to repeat this measure again?!" - little eyes ralls up.

I want to keep the other girl, but not this one. This is one of two families I drive to. All other students takes lessons in my place.
I am afraid disrespect comes from the mom " if I can hate cleaning people, I can hate my piano teacher". We need/have to have cleaning people/piano teacher, but we still can afford to hate them.

The answer is often obvious, when one is not cooking in it for four years. Help, what to do?
It's generally a very pleasant family ( at least on the outside ), if not to count this regular (every 6-8 week) hysterics.

[Bob]

If you have enough students and don't need them, drop them.  You won't have to deal with it anymore.  Sounds like you have to drop both though.

Or just drop the one.  Tell them it's because of these hysterics.  Let them know it's a concern and you won't be able to teach her if it happens again.  You are upfront about it.  If it does happen again, you resolve the problem yourself.  If not, you've saved yourself the trouble.

You've got enough students to do that, it sounds.

If a student is being negative or having a bad time, they could be spreading bad news about you as a teacher.  That might not be a good student to keep around.

[m1469]

Well, it is obvious where the attitude comes from.  Even when siblings are not twins, it is very tough not to compare oneself to the other.  You basically have two (somewhat obvious) options :

1.  Drop the student. 

I have found that dealing with situations that seem sticky, having it be as "clinical" as possible is best.  I don't mean heartless, but treating it as though you work for a company who has rules that you do not control.  These rules apply to everyone in the studio at all times, and therefore both girls are subject to the same rules.

One suggestion for what the concept would be is as follows :

"After every such and such amount of time, I take a rather extensive amount of time to review my own potency in teaching each student.   I make this effort because everyone involved is investing themselves, and the adults are investing money, toward the education we are working on in the studio.  I give these assessments because I would like to be sure that each student is getting what they truly need.  If, after careful review, I have found that my studio is not suitable for the individual, I will let the client know.  As each student is indeed an individual, sometimes what works for one does not for another.  In the event that I feel it is right to let go of a student, I will provide names of other prospective teachers, to give the student an opportunity to continue his or her education in an environment that is perhaps more suitable to the individual (please see attachment)."

Something like that anyway.  And then, give each situation an actual review that always puts the child's needs first  (it is ultimately what really matters and ultimately what the parents can understand best) -- which may require some time and creativity on your part, but putting this time in will serve you very well in the future, whereas putting the time and energy into keeping the student will perhaps not.  In the profile of the student you wish to drop, make it very clear that your studio is not the right place to suit her needs, while it is the perfect place to suit the other's needs.

An example of something along these lines is as follows :

"I dedicate an average of ____ amount of time during off hours of teaching toward each student's individual education.  I have found that putting in this time is required for each student, in order to serve each student to my best of abilities.  To better serve your daughter,  I would need to spend considerably larger amounts of time in preparation (this is very true, more books would need to be read, you would need to perhaps concentrate on specialized subjects... etc), which my studio simply does not allow for at this time."

This way, you are not selling yourself short, they are not excused of thier behavior (both the parents and the child), the student's needs come first, and it is clear that you cannot offer what you feel they need.  You have already talked with mom, so she is aware of there being special needs.

The worst case scenario is that you lose both of them, but keep your sanity.  And while you may wish to keep the one, your studio will not fold because of this and you will still feel better.  If something like this does not suit you, then you have option # 2

2.   Keep the student and chisel out some changes. 

Since the attitude problems seem to be arising from sibling rivalry, and are probably somehow fed into at home by the parents (whether intentional or not -- and I don't think they would EVER want to hear it, so don't "talk" with them about it), this issue would need to be addressed by you in your lesson planning for each student.  Ideally, the environment itself that you are teaching in would need to play a part in there being a change.  Since you are teaching in their home, perhaps one of the hot-beds for the problems, you would need to be more creative in helping to create an environment suitable to each student.  Some of this will have to do with something as simple as where the piano is located, who is around during the lesson and whether they are making comments or judgements.  There is A LOT invovled with this option.

If this is the option you choose, expect it to be lots of work for you, and, the cold and hard reality of it is, it may not change the situation for the child.  However, if done in the right way, it will be work that makes you a better teacher, and it will force you to grow.  But, if this distracts you from your teaching with other individuals, it might not be worth it.  And since you do have a good number of other students, I don't think the distraction would be a good idea.

Either way, give yourself something within your policies to fall back on and then work out from there.



m1469

[luvslive]

I don't have a solution, though I think the ones that have been offered are all good.  I just wanted to comment that it is interesting she yells "I hate piano!" loud enough that her parents can hear her.  Its almost as though she wants them to hear it and react, and they have decided not to.
I had a similar bad apple once; very moody and unpredictable, almost always negative in attitude - I simply ignored the bad behavior and tried to stay as upbeat as possible, asking her questions about her day and so forth.  Sometimes, though, theres not much one can do.  Demonstrate a good calm behavior and a love of music and the rest is up to them.  I'm sorry that you have become the one she chooses to have tantrums with.

[oksanapianist]

I agree with Bob-

If you can afford to drop them- do it. Life is too short to put up with unpleasantries.

[ingagroznaya]

Dropped since this afternoon. "Thank you" to all who responded.

Bob is right. Bad news to teach a hysterical kid. It was a good point, which I was not taking into a consideration. We don't want any bad news. I do not think she was that terribly unhappy, the whole behavioral "stuff" had some sort of twist to it, with which I don't think I'd want to bother. B_e_c_a_u_s_e the obvious came from "Luvslive". The parent chose not to react to her hysterics. Chose to/decided are key words. I do not feel like I am in a position to raise my voice or discipline the child, when parent is listening to all this mess from the next room.
I could deal with an occasional 5 minutes tantrums from a 6 years old, but not an entire lesson taken up by tantrum coming from someone who is 11. It is inappropriate. I don't do discipline. My discipline is piano.

Incredibly enough, the student who I did let go a week ago is an adult who is working as a psychologist at school. ( I think I am on a right path. I should get them in touch with each other, so they can grow and work on the twist together. The basic twist is the same.)

Now that I think of it, when I was a young teacher I taught two siblings: brother 11 and his little sister who was 6. Parents would keep a glass door closed ( to give us some privacy ).
We had fun. Probably too much fun - the little one was starting to get out of control a bit. It did not take long for the 11 years boy to notice it and tell his mom. Mom was "on top of it" immediately. I will never forget it.

Thank you m1469. Thanks Oksanapianist. You are the best, guys!

[landru]

I'm so glad it worked out for you - you should not have to deal with this kind of stuff. You are a professional and should get respect for this.

But I'm really mystified why your adult student you let go is pulling those tactics - I am an adult beginner student (about Level 5) as well and the last thing I would ever want to do is antagonize my teacher! I am learning so much and advancing well beyond what I could do by myself. So at the risk of your telling stories out of school, what did this student do? It seems so bizarre. Maybe the reason he is a psychologist is he recognizes at some level some issues he has himself  .

[ingagroznaya]

Hooray! I keep the other girl, but the hysterical kid got punished by "losing the privilege to have piano lesson" ( Her mom words. I suspect she got punished by some other means to intensify the feeling of a huge loss, but let's don't go into it ).
After four years together it's feels like going trough a much needed divorce.

I keep the other kid. No more pain. Thank you.

[m1469]

hmmmm.... I am happy for you that you feel good about it... but I feel kinda sad  .  I have never officially kicked a student out, and for some reason, even though you are not me, and your student is not mine, I feel bad  :-.  Like I gave up on a student, because I actaully said to you that dropping her is an option (I know that my advice was not the only one), and then you did  :-.



*guiltiness*


I apologize if I am raining on your parade

[ingagroznaya]

Maya, just like Bernard said in one of his posts about younger children "wait until they are ready".  The same applies to adults. Some people never are. Some kids grow up enough, where they learn to behave properly. Some never learn this basic skill.  If an adult shows up at your door, willing to pay for lessons, this wiliness alone is not always an indication that he is actually ready to take them. That was a case with my psychologist. To adults with some background in piano I offer two options:" I can entertain to eternity or we can actually try to get better". There is a huge difference between the two. Before one can afford to choose between those options, one must know how to play. Period.

If you have never let a student go, you must not have been teaching long enough. I don't do therapy. I don't do discipline. I teach piano. Take it or leave it.
Music appreciation class works for some.

[m1469]

Well, I am most concerned about your 11 year old, not the adult.  And it's not that I have never been in a situation where I could "justify" letting a student go, it's just that I generally try to do a better job teaching if I think that helping the situation is within my power (even if/especially if it means that I have to grow a little). 

But as I said before, obviously you and I are not the same person and I am sure that my feelings will change over the years.  I still feel a little guilty about giving the advice I did (even if my advice didn't really make a difference for you) and I learned a lesson about it.


m1469

[ingagroznaya]

First we grow, then we grow out of it.

[m1469]

Yes, okay.  You're right.  Thanks.

[balkanshpe]

Well, I am most concerned about your 11 year old, not the adult.  And it's not that I have never been in a situation where I could "justify" letting a student go, it's just that I generally try to do a better job teaching if I think that helping the situation is within my power

Get over it m1469.

[ingagroznaya]

Yes, m1469. Get over it. I'm traumatized enough.
I feel like going to see my "psychologist", look her directly in her eyes and say out loud:" YOU just want me to get outa here! YOU think I am boring 56 years old and I will never learn/get better!!!!! It's no more FUN!!!!!!!!!" And then on the way out I would artistically declare in front of her next client :" I don't know if I am coming back or not!" - striking a pose and hesitating for a moment to see how she would react, before making my grand exit.

This is what my psychologist said to me anyway. Word by word. Pose by pose. Only the slamming door was missing. Believe me, I've been through many ups and downs with my adult students. I know when they are looking for comfort and I respond accordingly ( I am madly in love with them all because I know how much it takes. They are my insporation! ) We usually have a heartfelt chat and go on with our lesson.
You should have seen the look in this woman eyes! She was not doubting her self, she was actually serious. I can't teach anyone who does not trust me or think I am so insincere. It was a full blown hysteric! The only thing she did not actually said is " I hate you! " ( She clearly is an educated woman with some level of sophistication )

At first I went with my regular comfort speech, because I clearly adored her...but it was evident soon after - I'm totally off key!

If I would pull this in her office, I'm sure she would suggested for me to see a shrink. All I did is wrote her an e-mail, saying that I can not allow such a behavior in my studio. Mom who's son was taking a lesson after her was in a complete shock.

[m1469]

I suppose I will do as I please and what's right for me.

[balkanshpe]

At first I went with my regular comfort speech, because I clearly adored her...but it was evident soon after - I'm totally off key!

Inga-

It sounds like she is totally "off key"................

maybe she was having a "bad hair day"? 

[ingagroznaya]

Balkan,
I'm not a "hair dresser". Thank you for all your support, guys. Could not do this without you.
I also did let go of another family I used to teach with 3 wonderful kids. What a pity!  That's 5 students total in two months. It took me so many years to finally realize that I am not a psychiatrist or a psychologist or what have you. Pleasant behavior on the lesson is a must. Interest and will to learn is essential. Mutual respect is paramount. Crazy parents and/or students can take the bulling, hysterics and drama some place else.

I have one student extra after all this "butchering" process. Am much happier as a teacher.
Thank you all.