Theory Questions Thread :)

[m1469]

What is this chord ?  And how does it function in the key of C minor ?


   F#
Eb
C
Ab

It sounds like (when played alone), and on the piano looks like, an Ab dom 7th chord in root position -- with Gb spelled enharmonically as F# -- but on paper it is written how I wrote it above; like a 7th chord in 1st inversion whose root would be F# ??



Thanks

m1469 Fox




ps-  It's from the theme in Beethoven's 32 variations in c minor
 

[phil13]

It is an Ab seventh chord, spelled that way because of the key signature.

In C minor, the dominant is G, so it occurs in the music as often as C (this is in basic stuff, not harmonic ventures and the like)

Composers want to keep that note natural (common practice, I guess) so they write a chord with Gb in it as an F#

Alternative: the Ab7 chord could lead to G7, in which case the same principles apply: namely, saving accidentals from being used too much.

Hope that helps clear it up.

Phil

[m1469]

Yes, thank you, that does help quite a bit.  I am supposing that there are other key signatures that have a similar problem, yes ?  Or is C minor the only one ?

The only part I didn't really understand was this here :

Alternative: the Ab7 chord could lead to G7, in which case the same principles apply: namely, saving accidentals from being used too much.

Why could Ab7 lead to G7 ?  Do you mean that this is an alternative to the C minor chord that it does go to in the theme ?  I think that's interesting because they double the 5th (G), so maybe that has something to do with it ?


Thanks,
m1469

[BoliverAllmon]

German +6 chord. beautiful chord.

[Tash]

yeah i'd say it's a german 6th hence the whole enharmonic thing, that's just how you write them (if i remember correctly)

[BoliverAllmon]

yeah i'd say it's a german 6th hence the whole enharmonic thing, that's just how you write them (if i remember correctly)

yep,

german = bVI + #4 scale degree
Italian = b6, tonic, and #4
French= b6, tonic, second, and #4
Swedish =#2, #4, b6, and tonic

all lovely chords.

[mikey6]

don't forget the Neapolitan 6th - built on the b2nd (another secondary dominant chord) with b natural (in c)

Swedish =#2, #4, b6, and tonic

all lovely chords.

swedish or swiss? I remember reading there's a swiss 6th - maybe I miss-read.

[Bob]

I guess we know the following chord is G?

https://www.utexas.edu/courses/mus612b/fmain/fdocs/notes/augsixth.html

It's even got an example with the exact same notes.

[westley]

Note that the "Swiss" and "German" sixths are exactly the same chord, spelled differently.

The Swiss generally occurs in major keys (with the #2 resolving up) and the German in minor (The third remains).

[Tash]

oooh i didn't know there was a swiss!! that's exciting i can add that to my brain now

[m1469]

Is this chord I am asking about a German 6th chord ?
 

I can't tell if people are answering my initial question or flying off on some tangent....


m1469

[zheer]

yep,

german = bVI + #4 scale degree
Italian = b6, tonic, and #4
French= b6, tonic, second, and #4
Swedish =#2, #4, b6, and tonic

all lovely chords.

     


 I would say its, Aflat with a sharpend 6th. ( or augmented 6th )

[pianistimo]

you mean augmented (F#) fourth in c minor?  Ab C Eb F# = 6, 1, 3, #4 german 6th

why is there no irish 6th? maybe there's an irish 5th (of scotch).

[BoliverAllmon]

yeah a swiss chord. I get the named mixed up. When I took theory, our teacher called it a sharp 2 German.

Yes m1469 the chord is a German +6 chord.