Home Recording Piano With Pc

[TwinkleFingers]

Hi, Im new to using  a pc with mic for recording piano music. Any suggestions on what mic to get for doing this.  Im using sound forge 7.0.  and I want at least to mics for singing and recording piano.  or any help at all would be nice.

[allchopin]

I have done this, but with only 1 microphone.  I wasnt too impressed with the sound quality, but it was listenable.
I haven't heard of Sound Forge, and I don't know what type of microphones you are using (or for that matter, what quality speakers you are using for playback- this might make you think that the recording quality is bad), but a computer can make for a pretty good recording device.  How do you plan to split the microphone port into two for two mics?  Also, you might want some sort of amp or mixer to deal with ambient sounds/noise reduction, etc.
I would like to buy a recording device (other than a computer) but I'm not really sure what to buy exactly... have you thought of this alternative instead?

[TwinkleFingers]

not serious enough to go out and buy a whole new system.  just really want some input(no pun intended there) on a good mic.  I was just looking at one from radio shack for 29.99  would that be all I need.  And I dont know how to split two mics for the soundcard.  I was asking on how to do that.  I guess you need a preamp or something like that for multiple track recording.  oh well, right now just using a cheap pc mic and surprisingly im getting a so-so recording out of it.  I put it at the furthest point inside the piano from the hammers.  turned off decible boost 20+(software setting) and adjusted recording input level so that the bar just barely gets into the orange on sound forge 7.0a build 462 or something like that.

[PianoProfBonsWay]

If you have the right sound card and digital keyboard, direct from keyboard to pc is the best. Awesome, like having your own studio, and I have other programs that can help in making a great recording. I have a small mixer.  Prof. B

[xenon]

No no no no no.  Digital keyboard to PC is not the best.  I have never heard any great piano recordings from digital instruments, have you?  What he needs is a solution for his acoustic piano.  I am more than fed up with electric pianos and their mediocre performance quality.  I would never succumb to a level low like that.  As a teacher of 44 years, how could you suggest something of such degredation?

Instead of paying well-earned money on some digital keyboard that actually has the right specifications for PC recording (not to mention the software and other hadware), he could get the necessary equipement to preperly record music the way it is meant to be.  What he needs is a mixer where he can plug multiple mics into, and output via 3/8" jack to the computer, converted to the minijack standard.

I use SoundForge too, and it is a great option.  Perhaps, you might look into Pro Tools.  That is the current standard in the industry.

Using a digital keyboard is not like having your own studio, save the synthetic music and other blasphemous garbage circulating around the music industry today.

[eventemp]

Hi There,
I went through this exercise a year ago, and from experience I offer the following thoughts:  Critical factor NUMBER ONE:  the microphone, and for piano, with its large dynamic range, I suggest large diaphragm condensor types.  I have a pair of Studio Projects C1s...but there are cheaper ones available...check out Sam Ash on the web.  Secondly, you did not mention your sound card (in your PC)  but PCs come standard with "gamer"cards (typically Sound Blaster) that can be improved greatly with an audio sound card.  Check these out on Home Recording sites on the web.  
The third critical component are the speakers...buy the best you can afford.  And last in importance is the software program in the PC...amost any will do.  
BTW...after months of checking out options, I bought a ZOOM digital recorder, and it turns my living room into a concert hall (with its DSP digital effects!)

[xenon]

Ah, so you didn't succumb to the dark side.  I'm proud of you!  

[TwinkleFingers]

thankyou all for your feedback.  which mics do you use? or do you recommend? small budget please.  May the force be with you obeewon.

[iumonito]

This topic suits me well, if you don't mind.  I want to record my piano and have no idea of anything related to recording.

CJ, got the mic, downloaded the software (Audacity).  It is really nice and seems easy to use, but it doesn't sound at all like my piano.

I went really cheap, I think: spent $34 at radio shack and got a unidirectional mic (the only thing they had!) and a little base.

I will give myself a $100 budget to begin this new toy thing.  It seems to me I need two mics, as I think I am recording mono.  I will practice a little and send you a couple of easy things next weekend so we can trouble shoot this.  Sounds OK?

To all who know, please chime in.  This should be a lot of fun.  Right now it sounds like one of those 1930's recordings.   

[hrschlosser]

An unidirectional mic won't sound very good in normal living rooms because they'll record too much of the room which is not good unless the room has a very good sound (concert hall). It is better to use a cardioid mic for home recording. You eighter need two mics or a stereo mic (although I wouldn't recommend the stereo mic because most of the cheap ones don't produce a good stereo image). As to the mics, it is important to use condenser mics (doesn't matter if real condeser or electret mic), I wouldn't use dynamic mics, they usually won't have a flat frequency response and therefore alter the piano's sound on the recording, also they are not sensitive enough.  Since the level of the mics is too low to drive the line input of the soundcard it is necessary to have a mic-preamp or small mixer with mic inputs. This amplifies the sound so it can drive the line input of the soundcard. You shouldn't use the mic input of the soundcard, because on most soundcards it is only mono and also not designed very well, it will make the recording very noisy. It's intention is probably more for voice recording purposes. However, there are some soundcards which have two mic inputs with a good quality, you would have to look for home recording equipement.

It is probably impossible to make a good recording if the budget is 100$ or less, because two mics, some cables and a preamp (or mixer) will cost more. Maybe 200-300$ should buy everything you need. The resulting recording quality will be very good. If you want to go real low budget, the only way is to use only one mic and conect it to the mic input.

As for mic placement, it is important to go very close to the soundsource. On a grand piano you open the lid an place the mic inside of the piano, but not directly above the strings, some distance will improve the sound, you need to experiment a bit. If the room is very big you can go further away from the piano, which will give a more natural sound. With an upright, you need to remove the front panel, otherwise the sound is muffled.

Best regards,
Jens

[intervals]

I wonder if you're recording the signal hot enough.  This can be tricky, but for starters, get the signal as loud as you can without clipping.  A compressor could help here, even adjusted at minimal settings to retain the dynamics of your playing.  I'm not familiar with your software, or with the 20 db boost mentioned.  Maybe there's a compressor built in that you can switch on?

Also, a piano will have several sweet spots for mic placement.  Rooms and pianos are all unique, so one way is to have somebody sit and play something repetitious while you go around the piano, aiming your ear the way the mic would be aimed.  If you're recording with one mic, plug one ear and aim with the other.

Generally though, on a grand, one good spot is right outside the furthest point from the keys.  Another spot is about midway along the curve, to the right from where you'd lift the lid.

[yoda_muppet]

This depends on what type of music you are recording. 

For something along the lines of "classical", I would suggest two large diaphragm condenser microphones.  Place one microphone a few inches from the hammers, near C2.  Place the other microphone near the back of the piano, centered over the copper bass strings.  Both mics should be 6-12 inches above the strings, depending on the sound you want.  Close will have less "room" sound.  When mixing, pan the left mic slightly right, and the right mic slightly left.  This will recreate the image of listening to the piano from an audience perspective.

If the music is rock, you have more options.  For the piano to really stand out in a mix with other instruments, I like to use a stereo pair of small diaphragm condesers (two sm-57s are acceptable also).  Place the  mics in an X configuration aboud 1' above the strings, near the hammers.  This will capture the percussive sound of the piano and let it cut into the mix.  Pan left hard left and right hard right.  The other option, if the piano plays more of a rhythmic role, is to record in  mono and pan center.

For Jazz, one or two large diaphram condensors generally work well, quite close to the strings (5 inches).  This can give you a very warm, yet bright sound.  Make sure the microphones you use can handle the high sound pressure levels at this distance, a piano can generate huge amounds of sound pressure.

As for microphone choices, if you are on a budget you might want to look at some of the budget condensers, like Behringer of MXL.  I have heard great things about the Studio Projects microphones also.  Make sure you have a preamp that provides phantom power, which these microphones require. 

If you chose the SM57, which I would only recommend for Rock, you will not need phantom power.

Hope this helps.

YM