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Topic: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...  (Read 2411 times)

Offline tourist

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Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
on: March 11, 2006, 02:36:24 PM
After several months of searching, my husband and I are more or less ready to buy a grand piano - or almost... Hard to believe but we are still waffling btwn the Yamaha C2, Vogel 177 (5'10") and the Bohemia/Rieger-Kloss 5'7". Each piano is sold thru a diff. store and each piano has +/-'s.

For example...

Yamaha C2 - we like the sound and feel and find the company easy to deal with and feel confident about the piano type of service we will receive. But wonder if it will be too bright for our room.

Bohemia - is not widely distributed in Canada - to say the least. We like the sound, but have concerns re: the distributor as they are small and not many of these pianos are sold here, so there could be service issues.

Vogel - like the sound the most, but it is a relatively new piano and as a result we cannot find too much info on it and its quality. It is made in Poland, but at the same time it has the Schimmel name behind it. We have only found 1 distrib. of this piano in Canada and are having trouble getting a comfort on a reasonable price for it. We feel we can negotiate a good price for the Yamaha and Bohemia, but right now the dealer for the Vogel is more pricey than the two others.

Another factor we are considering is our room size and the noise. It is going in our living room which is 14 x 17 with an ajoinig dinning room which is 12 x 14. There will be carpet in the living room, but not under the piano - and we hope this will not be a problem. Also, we plan on placing the piano in our bay window (which is north facing). Can windows cause the pianos sound to be distorted? Any comments on the positioning.

Pls let me know your thoughts on the 3 above mentioned pianos - quality & price. As well I would appreciated feedback on location in our room and having the piano on hardwood.

Many thanks and we hope to make our purchase this coming week and have our old upright grand removed.

Cheers.

Offline cy_shuster

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 03:31:30 PM
You will remember the sound of your piano long after you have forgotten the purchase price!  People usually buy houses more frequently than pianos -- and it's the pianos that are more often handed down and enjoyed.

Yes, the acoustics of your room will affect how your piano sounds there, and most piano showrooms are not like living rooms.  Many pianos are placed in bay windows on hardwood.  Small adjustments to the sound can be made onsite through "voicing".   

I'm glad you mentioned that the windows face north.  Direct sunlight will damage the finish and throw it out of tune.

The Yamaha is a known quantity, with a proven track record of consistency.  Larry Fine also likes the Bohemia.  As you say, the Vogel is new.  I haven't played a Vogel grand yet. 

5'8" or better is the best choice in size for most grands, and even a few inches can make a difference.  Try playing chromatically down from middle C, and see if you can tell the transition in sound between the plain wire strings and the wound strings.  This is one indication of the quality of the design.

Good luck!

--Cy--
piano.com [/url]

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #2 on: March 12, 2006, 06:10:55 PM
interesting, that suggestion about the possible difference of sound between plain wire and wound strings.  this sounds kind of stupid question, but how do you distinguish the quality if you can't compare it to another - and if they are in different stores what do you do?  maybe record the sound?  i don't know.  just curious.  it would be nice if there was one big store to mess around on a lot of pianos. 

maybe tuners hear these things right away.  perhaps bringing a tuner?  i'm starting to hear a lot of things i never heard before from pianos and expect a lot more.  quieter background noises from the keys and pedals.  if there is any extraneous noise - they should fix it for you.  i like pins that stay in place, too, and have LOVED my kawaii for the pins have been extraordinarily tight and tune well.  we've moved the piano three times, too!  we get it tuned after each one several times - but it seems the general quality of the piano is consistent.

sometimes places that repair pianos will have a large selection of pianos all together (more than a showroom) and you can get an idea of the quality of each.  maybe getting the best quality and not worrying about the repairs (as you don't HAVE to have someone who only works on that piano) as long as you know where they can order parts if necessary and any basic maintenance manuals they could give to you to give to your tuner (if there's something unusual about the piano).  must be like driving a quality vehicle.  i don't like bright bright either.  the widest pallette of tones and sounds is much nicer.  and, noticing what the pedals do on each piano.  some don't do a whole lot and make the piano sound like a toy.  then, like steinway and bose's you have a lot of distinction of levels of the pedal and can get at least 3 (maybe 4-5) levels on your pedalling - instead of up/down.

Offline alzado

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #3 on: March 12, 2006, 11:02:03 PM
For me, I would count follow-up service as most important single factor, eliminating the thinly supported brands.  Think of such simple matters as parts availability.   How good is a warranty if a brand has little or no presence in your market?

It is not at all certain that the impressions you have of sound in the sales studio will accurately reflect sound in your home.  Larry Fine in THE PIANO BOOK cautions that the accoustics in a sales showroom are misleading to say the least.   Also, it is hard for any but the most discriminating ear to discern how close each piano may be to accurately tuned pitch. 

I do not believe a bay window facing north would have an adverse effect.  We have our piano in a similar location, with no tuning problems.  Our piano is highly stable in that setting.

As for volume of sound when alluding to a 5'8" or similar size -- should not be a problem in the room as you describe it.  You have a lot of control of that, also.  Grands have a great range of loudness.  And offer a lot of control. 

I am not sure I can accept cy-schuster's comment that the "'5'8' is the best choice for most grands."  I WISH I could accept that, because ours is of that exact size!

Hope these comments help.

Offline cy_shuster

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #4 on: March 13, 2006, 12:20:07 AM
interesting, that suggestion about the possible difference of sound between plain wire and wound strings.  this sounds kind of stupid question, but how do you distinguish the quality if you can't compare it to another - and if they are in different stores what do you do?  maybe record the sound?

Sorry -  I wasn't clear.  Play middle C, then the B below that, then Bb, A, Ab, and so on, going down chromatically.  After an octave or so, you will have made the transition between playing on plain steel strings and wound strings (the exact place varies from piano to piano).  Look inside the piano at the moving hammer to see where this transition is, and see if you can tell a difference in sound between the highest wound string and the plain string next to it.

The shorter the piano, the more wound strings it has, and so the closer to middle C the transition is.  Short, wound strings change the quality of the sound in an undesirable way.  If your grand piano is 5'8" or larger (or thereabouts), there shouldn't be too many wound strings.  Grand pianos 5'2" or smaller (generally) have far too many wound strings, and they're too short to sound good.

So yes, enjoy your piano!

--Cy--
shusterpiano.com
piano.com [/url]

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #5 on: March 13, 2006, 06:05:44 AM
thanks for explaining that!  i always wondered why i didn't really like the sound of the smaller grands.  that makes sense.  the quality of sound change too close to mid-C.  and, it seems that the piano is too short to have the right tension for the strings.  seems like the longer strings have more flex.  (am i way off?)  the smaller pianos sometimes sound toy-like.

Offline ivrier

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Re: Narrowed purchase down to 3 grands - help...
Reply #6 on: March 13, 2006, 06:16:41 AM
I had a 5 foot baby grand for only 2 days in my home. They sound so different when they get to your home. I was not satisfied with the sound this baby grand produced. It was too muffled. I returned to the dealer and agreed to have it changed for a 6'1 grand. Oh, boy what a difference it makes.
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