What`s it all about

[franziii]

Music functions along the same principles as the laws governing the creation of the universe.
Natural law is the first cause for the formulation of all that comes after it, namely the logical progression of idea, form and expression dictated by the act of creative freewill.

So it is with the preparation, creation and expression found in the playing of any music regardless of the instrument.

Just as man is the highest outcome of natural law, so the highest expression of the heart is  most purely  manifested with the mastering of any art.

In the learning of music, the instrument is only one half of this marvelous equation.
The one playing becomes the instrument to be mastered in all its complexities by overcoming pride, fear, insecurity and learning to release any limitation that holds back the flow that is urging one forward.

[penguinlover]

I view music as a gift from God.  I always remember without Him, there would be no music.   Of course the instrument is only part of it, and the performer is an extension, or maybe the other way around.  Anyway, music shouldn't be to bring glory to us, but as an offering to God.

[maxy]

 

how interesting.  yet, if I don't practice and offer a prayer, I will screw up.  if I bleed myself up, practicing to build something solid, I should thank god for this wonderful "gift".

I think it's a way to run away from responsabilities. 

I prefer it this way:

when I screw up: it's my fault
when I do well: I take credit for it

[jas]

man is the highest outcome of natural law

What makes you think that? Man isn't perfect or infallible. For a race that you say is the "highest outcome of natural law" we've made a pretty good mess of looking after this planet and the other life on it.

I've always been sceptical of claims like the one you're making here. I don't believe that music is a higher expression of anything, nor do I see it as a gift from God (I won't bother going into the obvious case for other religions who certainly won't see it that way). I believe we can express ourselves through music, but you make it sound some inevitable, ineffable force that will take us to some higher plane, or something.
Not everyone is musical, or artistic in any way at all. Does that make them inferior to those who are?

I prefer it this way:

when I screw up: it's my fault
when I do well: I take credit for it

Me too.

Jas

[lostinidlewonder]

Sound has always existed. We have always known that we can create sound, whether it be pounding on animal skin drums or a modern piano or from out mouths. Humans love sound, if we have devices which can create sound we amuse ourselves. We have to realise that it is SOUND we are trying to create so how do we control sound? We should never forget this physical creation of compressed air that we are producing through our instruments. That itself is a living entity, compressed air surrounded with human emotion and message.

The highest expression of the heart is definatly NOT music. It is love. Of course love is a lot of things and that also includes music, but music does not even start to cover the amount of expression and variation the emotion love contains.

I personally think that we are all in the middle of no where in this galaxy, surrounded by countless space and boundaries. It is nice to make a sound with music, it is almost saying, HERE I AM, I EXIST, I CREATE.

[henrah]

Man isn't perfect or infallible. For a race that you say is the "highest outcome of natural law" we've made a pretty good mess of looking after this planet and the other life on it.

True, but would you say that the bunny race could do a better job? Are you able to tell that if they took over as the dominating species on this planet they would be able to sustain it, and also do more and better things than humans have done with this spinning sphere? We can only assume that we've 'made a pretty good mess' of this planet, as we have nothing to compare it to. Yes, there are many things which the world would probably benefit from never existing; but can we prove this? Only if we could pass back in time and change these, and compare the new future to the old, could we know that we have messed up. As you say, we are far from being infallible, but what mistakes we have made we have done a pretty good job of fixing them.
Henrah

[pianistimo]

well, since this is a religion/philosophy thread and people seem ok with it on the forum, i'll put in my two cents.  i believe sound was created along with everything else.  i think it was created for us to praise God and make a joyful 'noise.'  the voice was probably the first instrument to be experimented with.  the fact that we have a voice, ears, and hands/fingers to play instruments is proof to me that God intended music.  and, he created birds to sing for us (crickets to chirp) - so many sounds of the evening and morning and daytime. 

there's a scripture about 'there is no voice or spoken word...' somewhere in psalms where it is speaking about the 'heavens' quietness (physically speaking). and, yet, our music, prayers, and songs reach God in the highest realm.  his angels sing praises, too, i think, because in luke 2:14 when Christ was born, the angels sang 'glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.'  handel's messiah is the closest we come to the 'heavenly voices' of that choir in heaven. 

rev. 14:1-3 speaks of 'a voice which i heard like the sound of harpists playing on their harps (pianos?  just a question) and they sang a new song before the throne...'

[jas]

True, but would you say that the bunny race could do a better job? Are you able to tell that if they took over as the dominating species on this planet they would be able to sustain it, and also do more and better things than humans have done with this spinning sphere?

No, I wouldn't say that! I'm not suggesting an alternative, I was merely saying that we're not necessarily "the highest outcome of natural law," because a) things are constantly changing and evolving and b) there's a lot that we don't/can't understand/know about the universe, evolution, higher powers, etc.

We can only assume that we've 'made a pretty good mess' of this planet, as we have nothing to compare it to.

Hmmm, maybe. I don't think there's any way of denying that we've made a mess of it. We're on the brink of irreversibly changing the climate because of the crap we pump out into the atmosphere, countless species have become extinct because of us, directly or indirectly.
And I don't think we can say that we couldn't have done it differently, because much of this began so recently. For example, if we were to say that the industrialisation that led us to our current situation began approximately 100 years ago (I know the Industrial Revolution was earlier but presumably these things took a while to get going), then -- if we were to condense the time scale of our planet to one year -- we'd have done all this in the past ten seconds (if I've worked it out properly -- correct me if I'm wrong).
So I think that if we need to compare it to anything, it's to the planet we had before all this.

Jas

[henrah]

No, I wouldn't say that! I'm not suggesting an alternative, I was merely saying that we're not necessarily "the highest outcome of natural law," because a) things are constantly changing and evolving and b) there's a lot that we don't/can't understand/know about the universe, evolution, higher powers, etc.

Well as things are constantly changing, we are - as of yet - the highest outcome of natural law.....that we know of. As you say, there is still a heck of a lot that we can learn about everything. So to the best of our judgement, we are the highest outcome of natural law on this planet, as we have yet to realm other planets with signs of life.

Hmmm, maybe. I don't think there's any way of denying that we've made a mess of it. We're on the brink of irreversibly changing the climate because of the crap we pump out into the atmosphere, countless species have become extinct because of us, directly or indirectly.
And I don't think we can say that we couldn't have done it differently, because much of this began so recently. For example, if we were to say that the industrialisation that led us to our current situation began approximately 100 years ago (I know the Industrial Revolution was earlier but presumably these things took a while to get going), then -- if we were to condense the time scale of our planet to one year -- we'd have done all this in the past ten seconds (if I've worked it out properly -- correct me if I'm wrong).
So I think that if we need to compare it to anything, it's to the planet we had before all this.

Jas

To this I cannot rebut.....give me the night to sleep and I shall look over it with fresh eyes in the morning

[rc]

Nice post Franz! I'm not sure what I can add to that, but I agreed with Lost's elaboration: love.

Even non-artist people can express themselves through love for another person, or their family, or their country... Sometimes, the love between people is a sort of art in itself.

I kind of get the impression that some things are inevitable. If Haydn died early or was never born (...for example), someone else would have continued those musical trends in history. Haydn was just the best man for the job, a man who devoted himself to composing music, became a strong channel for the times... If not through him, then maybe through a dozen others.

...Just an idea.

[penguinlover]

I agree with pianistimo.  In fact, I think he said what I was trying to say, and said it much more in depth.  The highest expression is love, and we need to remember that God is love. 

[franziii]

Thank you all for reading and responding to this post.
It has been interesting to see how the thoughts and opinions have evolved or has God has spoken through these responses?

[jas]

It has been interesting to see how the thoughts and opinions have evolved or has God has spoken through these responses?

Not through mine, he hasn't.

[rc]

Thank you all for reading and responding to this post.
It has been interesting to see how the thoughts and opinions have evolved or has God has spoken through these responses?

I'm coming to have a different view of god... Not so much as a literal being, but more like 'god' as a useful word in describing the force that I'm starting to believe is behind everything.

And... Pianistimo, you shouldn't have to shirk from voicing your thoughts, just because some people might not agree with them...

[penguinlover]

I didn't think he was shirking.  What was said was with confidence, and very forthwright.

[rc]

I didn't think he was shirking.  What was said was with confidence, and very forthwright.

hahah, true. I was referring to her first line there... A while ago somebody was making a big deal out of religion in the forum.

[pianistimo]

thanks guys.  ps.  i am a her, as rc pointed out.  don't get confused with ludwig (he's a she) or rather (she is a she, too).