Is the PC an instrument?

[nicco]

I recently had a long argument with a friend who makes "trance music" on his pc. I told him I dont think you can call the PC an instrument, and i dont think what you are making is music, because everything is made by clicking a mouse. However he claimed that the PC could be as good as any instrument if you had the right sound program and bla bla bla.

Do you think the PC could be thought of as an instrument compared to f.ex a piano?

[zheer]

Do you think the PC could be thought of as an instrument compared to f.ex a piano?

   An instrument yes, but not a musical instrument, if that  were the case then a mobile phone could be called a musical instrument.

[timothy42b]

What?

Of course it is an instrument. 

It allows a human to be creative and produce pleasing sounds.  Why is that not an instrument?  How is that different from playing piano, bagpipes, handbells, or any other instrument? 

It is relatively new.  It requires new skills and new approaches.  But are we to play only instruments known to Beethoven?  Or maybe those mentioned in the Bible? 

What about theremin?

[jas]

Personally, I would say no -- I think the instrumentalist should be the direct cause of the sound being created -- but I think the question of what could be considered a musical instrument is like the question, "what is music?" There's a yes, a no, and an enormous grey area in between that no one is ever going to agree on.

Jas

[nicco]

well, i think of an instrument as way to create music wich is personal, full of passion and playing in the moment. With the PC its more or less drag and place samples and mix sounds and stuff. This way i dont see people who make trance music, socalled DJ's, as musiscians.

[burgoofj]

Is a five gallon plastic bucket and a stick an instrument?  Of course it is.

Is a digital piano an instrument?  Again the answer is without question yes.

If you take a PC, put a nice synthesizer onto it, plug a nice keyboard controller into it, connect it to a nice sound system, is it then a musical instrument?

Frank

[nicco]

If you take a PC, put a nice synthesizer onto it, plug a nice keyboard controller into it, connect it to a nice sound system, is it then a musical instrument?

I dont think so. Computerized sounds are not human sounds. No matter how many times you use the word "nice".

[arensky]

I dont think so. Computerized sounds are not human sounds. No matter how many times you use the word "nice".

But humans make the computers, and humans make the sounds with them! So they are human sounds. And like any other kind of music there is a skill level involved. It is harder to learn to play a Rachmaninov or Prokofiev Concerto IMO than to do trance music at the computer. But this should not diminish the value of either; they both have their place. What your friend is doing is simply modern electronic composition, you hear it constantly in films and "pop" music, to great effect. These proceedures of sampling cutting and editing sounds are now a part of composition and our musical culture.  "The times they are a' changin '..."

When a concert pianist uses splices and editing and tweaks the recorded sound to make it more pleasing in the recording process of a Chopin Scherzo, does that diminish the legitimacy of his performance? Is this "inhuman" ? Ninety years ago many classical artists were dismissive of the recording process, saying it was not "real" and illegitimate. Today I don't think any of us can imagine musical life without the recordings or radio. PC music is just another step in musical development. It will get better (I hope).

So the PC is a new kind of instrument, I don't think you can compare it to the piano or other acoustic instruments, as it is meant for the recorded medium, not the live.

[quantum]

I agree with Arensky, it is an instrument - a new kind of instrument.  We can't really compare it to other instruments because really it has it's own type of repertoire suited to it's uses. 

It can be used for more that just cutting and pasting samples.  For example with programs like MAX/MSP or PureData, highly individual sounds can by created by haveing the computer connected to interface devices that humans manipulate.  For example, you could hook up a video camera to caputure movement of a human, and create a program to output a sonic response based on particular types of movment. 

Lots of great examples here:
https://www.rhizome.org/

[clef]

What?

Of course it is an instrument. 

It allows a human to be creative and produce pleasing sounds.  Why is that not an instrument?  How is that different from playing piano, bagpipes, handbells, or any other instrument? 

It is relatively new.  It requires new skills and new approaches.  But are we to play only instruments known to Beethoven?  Or maybe those mentioned in the Bible? 

What about theremin?

well you can create music on it, its not such a live, playing instrument, its more of a programming instrument, thats why I'd be hesitent to call it a musical instrument, they teach computer composition in my music school, its not defined as an instrument there, just a tool to compose with. 

[juliax]

According to one of my proffessors, music is defined as an organized and deliberate sound, and an instrument is something that will implement an organized and deliberate sound.  So according to raw definition and facts, yes the PC is an instrument.
Trance is far from the only music that is made with computers.  Many contemporary classical pieces written for the symphony incorporate synthesizers as well as pop, hip hop, rap, country, you name it, they've all used some type of computer or digital remasterring either within the song itself or post recording. 
If you study the history of music you will see that the progress within the music coincides with the progress of society.  For example, the classical period happened around the same time as the printing press and because of this, music was written at an easier level and made more accessible to the general public.  Like mentioned earlier, the computer was invented by people just like the printing press, and is no different than any other technological advance including the invention of the fortepiano and the saxaphone.  The fact that it uses electricity has no affect on whether or not is an instrument.
Aphex Twin makes very complicated and abstract music using different electronic techniques.  I highly recommend them to anyone who is interested in creative synthesizer techniques.

[quantum]

Great post juliax, and welcome to the forum 

[juliax]

Great post juliax, and welcome to the forum 

Thanks!  glad to be here

[tac-tics]

As long as one injects their own creativity and skill into it, it's an instrument. Guitar effects? It's the guitar that's the instrument. Voice, yes. Piano, yes. Logic Pro, yes. FL Studio.... now *there's* where it gets hazy X-D

Just because it's easy to produce sound that doesn't sound like aural dirt doesn't rob it of instrument status. A lot of skill can be applied to computer music.

[narsil26]

It's an entirely electronic sound.  Plus, without the speakers, it wouldn't be anything. 

[juliax]

It's an entirely electronic sound.  Plus, without the speakers, it wouldn't be anything. 

You could say the same thing about an electric guitar, keyboard, viola, etc.   Historically people have turned their nose up to technology only to embrace it later on.  Just because it is new, doesn't mean it is less.

[nicco]

The thing that makes me think of the PC as a non instrument is that you arent really playing it, you are composing. With piano, guitar, violin, drums, saxofone etc you have to concentrate really hard on producing the sound you want by presssing correctly, blowing perfectly, whatever. With the PC alone, and now i think of using programs like Cubase, fruityloops or Musicator, its not like you are playing an instrument, but rather composing (Its hard to explain what i mean sorry )

[juliax]

The thing that makes me think of the PC as a non instrument is that you arent really playing it, you are composing. With piano, guitar, violin, drums, saxofone etc you have to concentrate really hard on producing the sound you want by presssing correctly, blowing perfectly, whatever. With the PC alone, and now i think of using programs like Cubase, fruityloops or Musicator, its not like you are playing an instrument, but rather composing (Its hard to explain what i mean sorry )

I definately see what you are saying.  I have seen fruity loops, and it is pretty dinky.  I had friends who swore by it while I was being trained classicaly on piano, so I of course had no respect for them as musicians.  I was practicing over an hour a day, and they were just clicking buttons til something sounded good.  However, there are other ways to use the PC that are much more complicated.  Music producers use a PC and a synthesizer (along with other electronic equipment) to remaster pretty much every song that gets put on a CD.  And like I mentioned before, Aphex Twin makes very complicated and some classicaly styled songs that are very intricate and detailed the same way classical music is.
But when it comes to the PC, it is kind of an elementary way for elementary composers to enjoy music without having to really work at it.  I certainly wouldn't give any Fruity Loops compositions more credit than they deserve!  Think of it as kind of like a Recorder or one of those little xylophones sold in toy stores.  They're instruments, just not highly respected ones.