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Topic: Tension While Playing  (Read 3153 times)

Offline pianoperfmajor

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Tension While Playing
on: March 17, 2006, 01:01:49 AM
I'm finding more and more that I play with a lot of tension and strain.  I was never really aware of how bad I was until recently when, during my practice, my hands would get really soar and my knuckles would crack after using any force on the keys at all.  I think it's mostly due to how I practice, that I get so caught up in focusing on the notes and music and stuff like that, that I forget about my hands and press really hard and tighten up.

Any suggestions on ways to relieve this tension?

Offline crazy for ivan moravec

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #1 on: March 17, 2006, 01:19:39 AM
tension is needed in playing but we only need so little of it. try experimenting "stress-release". when playing a FFF chord, strike it big with your body weight (it requires a considerable amount of tension, but never too much), then after half a second or so, release the tension but still keep on holding the keys down. i think everything about playing is stress-release, but very little of the former because we have to use our natural body weight in order to make most of the sound, and not force.

avoid continued pressure on the keys even after depressing. sometimes when teachers tell us to go "deep", we go deep all the way. there should be points where we relax to avoid constant tension. and in that way, we save so much energy.:)

when there are big leaps of chords like in rachmaninoff etudes, try practicing them slowly, applying the exercise above, and go faster notch by notch until you can play it fast and relaxed. big leaps usually give us tension because the mind thinks harder in order to shoot those chords, resulting into the physical tension.

hope that helps.
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Offline instrumentaliszt

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 04:02:32 PM
my suggestion: go to this site: https://www.peter-feuchtwanger.de/english/startenglish.html
and order the video (including book)
it is really fantastic and the exercises in the video help so much discovering how to release tension.
patrick

Offline rc

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 06:33:51 PM
Good post from Crazy for Ivan... It's all about economy of energy.

Any suggestions on ways to relieve this tension?

Basically just to be aware of it, and to practice playing without tension. In the technical aspect of playing, my goal is to be able to pull it off with ease. So, ease is the goal... and if you practice like this, it's easy to achieve ease. ;)

Another suggestion, a lot of people carry around tension all day. From stress, worries, anxiety, etc. Try just sitting down and relaxing every muscles in your body from time to time. You'll find you can get very good at releasing this tension and it will make your life a lot easier, including piano. I often intentionally relax while I'm driving around, since the road is such a major source of stress for me.

Offline jlh

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #4 on: March 24, 2006, 09:13:38 AM
An EXCELLENT resource I think everyone who struggles with tension while playing piano should read is Gyorgy Sandor's book on piano playing.  He's the master teacher when it comes to playing freely and without tension.  You won't play the same way after reading this book.
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Offline bradley

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #5 on: March 24, 2006, 02:27:08 PM
my suggestion: go to this site: https://www.peter-feuchtwanger.de/english/startenglish.html
and order the video (including book)
it is really fantastic and the exercises in the video help so much discovering how to release tension.
patrick

YES!!! peter feuchtwanger is excellent for this sort of thing! his excercises are GREAT! Try the FFF chord thing, but you must release tension after 1 millisecond though. very very quick! you can also do this with individual fingers in passage-work. take it VERY slowly, lifting you fingers up straight (ie parallel to the keyboard) and then as hard as you can into the key, but again release the tension VERY quickly.

Offline cjp_piano

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #6 on: March 24, 2006, 02:49:49 PM

Another suggestion, a lot of people carry around tension all day. From stress, worries, anxiety, etc. Try just sitting down and relaxing every muscles in your body from time to time. You'll find you can get very good at releasing this tension and it will make your life a lot easier, including piano. I often intentionally relax while I'm driving around, since the road is such a major source of stress for me.


I agree.  Sometimes it's easier to be aware when you actually tense specific muscles on purpose while you breathe in, and then release the tension as you breathe out.  You can do this while you practice a section of your music.  For example, play a scale or arpeggio up and down, and keep cycling it.  While you are playing this, tighten your shoulder muscle and then relax it, and then tighten your forearm, and then relax, etc.  Do this even with your back, buttocks, legs, neck, jaw, and everything.  Everyone usually holds tension somewhere, and even if you think it's mainly in your fingers, it may be somewhere else too.



Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #7 on: March 24, 2006, 06:45:58 PM
slow practice is always a way to relax.

Just focus on relaxing, using your arm weight more, and don't raise your fingers to high off of the keys.

For rapid octave sections, play them slowly, and in fast groupings (3 at a time or so, making sure that you are relaxed)

Make sure that when you do trills, ornaments, or tough technical feats that you are not moving your mouth or tensing your jaw.

Just focus on your whole body being relaxed.

Offline flashyken

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #8 on: March 25, 2006, 02:36:21 PM
Tension while playing is practising with the wrong technique.

I have, all my life, played with tension, and its wrong. Its about practicing in the right way, and slow practice, which needs huge amount of discipline (something which I am trying to adopt).

Think its starting to work for me - I am not getting tired arms practising Flight of the Bumble Bee (arr. Rachmaninov) because I made sure I got it under the fingers, and then started slowly to increase speed - I think I am about 3/4 speed and my arms are not locking up like they used to - and it should be applied for EVERY piece of music, whether slow or fast - that way, furiously fast or thunderous chords can be played with the minimum of tension.

Forever learning to better the technique.

Offline flashyken

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #9 on: March 25, 2006, 02:41:20 PM
It is also easy to lock up arms when playing fast passages. It needs to be in the fingers more - and in the wrists. So, letting the fingers do the spidery dancing of the fast passages, and consciously thinking about your arms and whether they are relaxed.

Its tricky, hard work, but essential to get the technique right, even more so to play advanced level piano works such as Balakirev's Islamey etc.

Offline maxine

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #10 on: March 25, 2006, 06:29:00 PM
I think locked elbows is the one most oblivious problem that alot of advanced pianists have.
Unlike a tensed shoulder, it's not so easily spotted.
I used to play with some tension... but had a complete overhaul and paradigm shift when my teacher enlightened me on my execution.
Don't play the piano as in one giving the piano...so don't press 'down', 'DRAW' out the sound from the instrument instead.
Draw, don't give.. i believe that'll solve alot of problems. ;D

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #11 on: March 26, 2006, 01:36:35 AM
I agree with a lot of what the others have said already so without repeating anything they have here is a little more info. Personally I have found that most tension when playing piano occurs when the student does not have a concept of centre of gravity in their hands and they do not understand which note on the keyboard the hand should move around.

It is too confusing (and inaccurate imo) to try and describe what the student is doing wrong with their parts of the body without regarding the fingers first. If the fingers are controlled and feel comfortable then the rest of the body follows. So it is important to mark on the score which notes act as a balance to the entire hand, there is always one note in every group of notes which supports our hands for all music, if we are consciously aware of this note then we speed up our mastery of memorisation and physical excecution.

..... I get so caught up in focusing on the notes and music and stuff like that, that I forget about my hands and press really hard and tighten up.
So to me this highlights that when sight reading you are not observing group of notes effectively, it would be an idea to put a little colored dot above notes which act as the centre of the hand so that you can readily appreciate and play a group of notes once the hand is positioned comfortably at this note, so when you sight read you can feel for these balance points instead of mindlessly reading and not acknolwedging a balance effect your hand naturally gives.
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Offline jlh

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #12 on: March 29, 2006, 07:47:38 AM
slow practice is always a way to relax.

Just focus on relaxing, using your arm weight more, and don't raise your fingers to high off of the keys.

For rapid octave sections, play them slowly, and in fast groupings (3 at a time or so, making sure that you are relaxed)

Make sure that when you do trills, ornaments, or tough technical feats that you are not moving your mouth or tensing your jaw.

Just focus on your whole body being relaxed.
I agree.  I would also add that when playing slowly, don't forget that when you speed up, the hand/arm motions must also speed up.  I frequently run into problems when doing this because I play fast, but yet focus so much on relaxing that I revert back to the slow motions I've been practicing.  Practicing faster hand motions yet remaining relaxed (everything but the bridge of the hand, that is), is one thing everyone must address at some point.
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Offline cjp_piano

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 05:34:28 PM
Often it actually HINDERS physical and mental learning when you practice something slow and then gradually speed it up.  There are 2 main reasons:

1.  There has been conclusive research that brain function for slow practice is quite different than in fast practice (the brain activity actually occurs in a DIFFERENT place in the brain for slow and fast practice). 

2.  Muscle use is different for slow practice and fast practice.  Think of a horse's different gaits: walk, trot, gallop, run, etc.  a gallop isn't just a sped-up walk, the motions are actually quite different; if a horse tried to just trot really fast, it would trip over itself. 

In piano playing, this is more obvious with some gestures.   

Try playing RH fingers 1, 3, 4, 2, 5, 3, 2, 4, 1 on a C pentascale or just on the table.  Try it really slow first, and notice the circles that your wrist makes and how you have different "turn around" points. 

To play it very fast, notice that it's more like one big motion.  To practice it fast just do 1, 3, 4 really fast and relaxed, and then add the next one: 1, 3, 4, 2, and then 1, 3, 4, 2, 5, etc.  If you practice it really slow and then gradually speed it up, it starts feeling awkward, doesn't it?

I find that it is more effective to figure out how to play something FAST and RELAXED rather than slow and then gradually speeding it up.  Granted, when you're first learning a piece, you can't play it fast yet.  So, isolate a very small section, and work on playing it fast and relaxed as SOON as possible, then do the same with the surrounding passages to put it in context, and continue this process.

Anyone else?

Offline bennom

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #14 on: March 29, 2006, 11:31:40 PM
I'm finding more and more that I play with a lot of tension and strain.  I was never really aware of how bad I was until recently when, during my practice, my hands would get really soar and my knuckles would crack after using any force on the keys at all.  I think it's mostly due to how I practice, that I get so caught up in focusing on the notes and music and stuff like that, that I forget about my hands and press really hard and tighten up.

Any suggestions on ways to relieve this tension?

Sorry to say this, but...CHANGE TEACHER.

If he/she has not seen your problems, nor helped you with it, I think you are wasting your time with him/her.

I developed tensions and ache in my hand for a while. I changed teacher (and school) and I was saved. My old professor hated me for four or five years, but... it was worth it!!!

Please note that this is very sincere advice.

BennoM

Offline pianoperfmajor

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #15 on: March 29, 2006, 11:57:48 PM
Sorry to say this, but...CHANGE TEACHER.

If he/she has not seen your problems, nor helped you with it, I think you are wasting your time with him/her.

I developed tensions and ache in my hand for a while. I changed teacher (and school) and I was saved. My old professor hated me for four or five years, but... it was worth it!!!

Please note that this is very sincere advice.

BennoM

I've actually been thinking of changing teachers for quite some time.  My current teacher is this old guy who I feel doesn't teach me very well and is very tired of teaching.  So your advice may just be heeded.  Thanks.

Offline jlh

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #16 on: March 30, 2006, 09:35:17 AM
2.  Muscle use is different for slow practice and fast practice.  Think of a horse's different gaits: walk, trot, gallop, run, etc.  a gallop isn't just a sped-up walk, the motions are actually quite different; if a horse tried to just trot really fast, it would trip over itself. 

In piano playing, this is more obvious with some gestures.   

I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one, at least partially. 

Your analogy of a horse is a good one, but doesn't relate so well to slow PRACTICE.  Yes, when you're playing a passage slow that's intended to be slow, you will use certain gestures that will differ from those you will use when playing a passage fast that's intended to be fast, but if you're PRACTICING a fast passage at a slow tempo, the gestures you use should be the same gestures you will use when playing that passage at the intended fast tempo.

Imagine if you will, a slow motion camera replay on TV of a football or baseball game.
Everything you saw at the original speed is still there, but it is slowed down to the point where you can really observe every detail comfortably.  It's the same thing with slow practice... everything, including the gentures, is still there in the same amount of detail, it's just slowed down so you can observe and concentrate comfortably.  The gentures are the same. :)
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Offline crazy for ivan moravec

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #17 on: March 30, 2006, 01:44:11 PM
sorry, i accidentally posted something different.
Well, keep going.<br />- Martha Argerich

Offline cjp_piano

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Re: Tension While Playing
Reply #18 on: March 30, 2006, 04:42:28 PM
I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one, at least partially. 

Your analogy of a horse is a good one, but doesn't relate so well to slow PRACTICE.  Yes, when you're playing a passage slow that's intended to be slow, you will use certain gestures that will differ from those you will use when playing a passage fast that's intended to be fast, but if you're PRACTICING a fast passage at a slow tempo, the gestures you use should be the same gestures you will use when playing that passage at the intended fast tempo.

Imagine if you will, a slow motion camera replay on TV of a football or baseball game.
Everything you saw at the original speed is still there, but it is slowed down to the point where you can really observe every detail comfortably.  It's the same thing with slow practice... everything, including the gentures, is still there in the same amount of detail, it's just slowed down so you can observe and concentrate comfortably.  The gentures are the same. :)

Yes, you're right, good analogy with the slow motion replay!  But I wasn't saying that if you do the fast gesture in slow motion it wouldn't be the same, I was saying if you just practice something slow (without knowing how you will be able to play it fast and relaxed), and then gradually speed it up, it probably won't be the most efficient gesture.  I was saying this because many pianists practice this way and then wonder why, when they speed it up, it's awkward and tense.

Sorry for the confusion!
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