Acoustic or Electric

[djbrak]

I'm trying to decide whether I should get an upright grand or a digital (Yamaha Clavinova, etc.)
Right now I'm on my 2nd year of studying piano and I practice on a Yamaha 61-key keyboard w/plastic keys.
I can still practice at college where they have Kawai 88-key digital in the classroom and Yamaha grand upright in the practice rooms, but I still feel I should have something of the same kind at home to practice better.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
My budget is up to $3,000.
Thanks!
-Renato

[dj]

get an accoustic. for $3000 you could probably get a relatively nice used yamaha which im sure you will be much more satisfied with than a digital

[xenon]

While electric pianos have made many advancements in the past few years, it does not compare to an acoustic one.  The feel is definately something that is different, and if you develop a touch that is suitable for an electrical piano, it will not be appropriate for when you play on an acoustic, whether at your piano teacher's or at a performance.  I got my Yamaha Console (basically same as upright) for $2000 CAD.  In my opinion, it has one of the better touches that I have seen in a piano.  The action is good, but it limited to the fact that it cannot rely on gravity to pull the hammer down, such as in a grand piano.  The tone is also good.  As you grow older (as a pianist), you will see that an upright is too small for your needs.  It's hell trying to practice my repertoire on my piano right now because of all of the physical limitations .  And when I have to perform on other pianos, the difference in touch really messes me up.  But for the 2nd year, it would be okay.  My piano has served me well from my Introductory to Grade 8.  After that, the music was just not suitable for my piano.

Well, good luck!  

[eddie92099]

As you grow older (as a pianist), you will see that an upright is too small for your needs.

I disagree,
Ed

[xenon]

Depending on the work, that is.

[eddie92099]

Depending on the work, that is.

I cannot think of any work which is "too big" for the best upright piano available. Of course, generally a grand piano is better, but it is not essential,
Ed

[xenon]

I wasn't talking about the best upright.  I meant an average upright.

[eddie92099]

I wasn't talking about the best upright.  I meant an average upright.

Well you should have said that  ,
Ed

[xenon]

Sorry about that.  I have to admit I have a tendency to leave of certain points in my post .  My fingers type faster than I can think.  That's definately a tribute to piano .

[Axtremus]

My fingers type faster than I can think.  That's definately a tribute to piano .

Ha!

I know what you mean. If you want to "cure" that habit about typing faster than you can think, though, try picking up some slow, "deep" pieces. E.g. Albeniz's "Tango" Opus 165 No. 2; Schumann's "Traumerei" Opus 15 No. 7; Scriabin's Etude in C# minor Opus 2 No. 1. (And yes, all these pieces can work well on an upright.)

As for Ed's contention that there are no pieces too big for a high-end upright, I agree there are good uprights that can musically outperform many mid-level grands, but I have yet to hear any concerto recorded or performed with an upright and an orchestra.

Try to imagine performing "Emperor" or Rach-2 or Tchaikovsky-1 or Corigliano-1 backed by the full cast of New York Philharmonic in Carnegie Hall with an upright. Hard, ain't it?

There may be hope, however, if only a faint one going far into the future. See https://www.klavins-pianos.com/details_en.htm .

[eddie92099]

Try to imagine performing "Emperor" or Rach-2 or Tchaikovsky-1 or Corigliano-1 backed by the full cast of New York Philharmonic in Carnegie Hall with an upright. Hard, ain't it?

And you try and fit a symphony orchestra into your music room!
Ed

[xenon]

Hehe...good points

Well, I'm kinda pissed now.  I'll start from the beginning.  Okay.  The Italian Cultural Society here in Manitoba, Canada brought in an ensemble from Italy and wanted me to play some music in this concert.  And, they even said that they will rent a grand piano because it was such a special occasion .  Well, I asked them what piano they will be renting, and they said, "What kind?  Does it really matter?"  So I say, "Well, yes.  Depeding on the piano, I know how to practice."  So they called me a few days later and said that they'll be renting a Yamaha.  Good, thought I, because I am familiar with that brand I do like them .  

Well, today, when the piano arrived, I went to the Centro Caboto (the cultural centre) to practice a bit on it.  When I walked in the hall, it hit me.  On the side of the piano was stenciled, "J.J.H. McLean".  That could only mean one thing...IT WAS A KAWAI.  Well, I pray and hope that it wasn't a Kawai, but as I lift up the lid, the ever infamous "KK" on the V-Plate thingy hits me like a ton of bricks.  %@$& thinks I.  I've been practicing Mendelssohn's Rondo Capriccioso Op. 14 and Chopin's Etude Op 10 No 12 to suit on a Yamaha C7 (typically very little resistance).  And here was some no name Kawai (I couldn't locate any recognizable model number).  So I tried it.  Yep, just like the other Kawais, the touch was incredibly difficult.  But, unlike the Kawais I used before, this piano had no projection whatsoever.  And it pissed me off.  And when I played tonight, I was pissed, but I played good

What's the moral of this story?  If you're thinking of purchasing a Kawai, don't.  Stick to the electric .

[Axtremus]

Xenon,

Sorry to hear of your less-than-satisfactory performance experience.

... Yep, just like the other Kawais, the touch was incredibly difficult.  But, unlike the Kawais I used before, this piano had no projection whatsoever. ...  If you're thinking of purchasing a Kawai, don't.

While I agree it is generally true that Kawai has slightly heavier touch than Yamaha, I don't see that as a reason not to buy Kawai.

Most Steinways I came across have even stiffer action than most K.Kawais and very few would say you shouldn't buy a Steinway because its action is stiff.

There are like a dozen things in the action assembly that a good piano technician can tweak to make the piano's touch heavier or lighter to better suite a pianist's habit.

Some people like heavier touch, some like lighter touch. To each his own.

In terms of new technological advancement in this regard, the "Magnetic Balanced Action" system ( https://www.pianosonline.co.uk/pol/org.paneris.pol.controller.Page/Home/Events/Musikmesse2002_tech.htm ) seems interesting because it allows you to change the touch weight easily on a piano. (I have yet to try it though.)

Back to the topic of electric/digital pianos - even the digital ones come with different touch weights depending on model. Some even put in wooden keys to emulate an acoustic piano's touch. I have also read of high-end digital ones that let you adjust how heavy or light you want the touch to be -- definitely an interesting new world out there in the realm of electrical/digital piano.

[dinosaurtales]

First of all, if you have $3000 you can get a very good upright piano - used probably.  I just sold my little Baldwin acrosonic for $1100!  

Now don't get me wrong.  I LOVE my Fazioli - truly I do!  wouldn't give it up for ANYTHING. BUT, I played that little Baldwin acrosonic for 35 years!  And I played some pretty big stuff - Beethoven sonatas, Rach preludes, etc.  Granted, they would have sounded better on the Faz, but I learned to play just fine on the upright.  

If you  live in an apartment, you might consider the electronic, if only to get the headphone set so you can practice silently and not p*ss off your neighbors.  i couldn't play at all till I lived in a house, for example.  

Other than that, a grand is good for your technique because the keys are longer, and the action is a bit different.  i did notice a big improvement, suddenly, too, when I got the grand.  But for now, get what you can afford and enjoy!