Hi - new to forum (memorizing)

[pianistwannabe]

Hi!   Can you tell me who this forum is for?  Is it open to everyone who has an interest in piano playing, regardless of level?  I just want to learn from all who are more experienced than me. 

Thanks,

pianistwannabe

[cjp_piano]

If you are here, it's for you   

[pianistwannabe]

Wow - do new comers usually get such a welcoming reception to this forum?   

[cosine]

Everybody was a newbie at one time. This forum is great for pianists, regardless of your skill level.

So, welcome! Read a lot and learn a lot. 

[stevie]

you have my blessing

[pianistwannabe]

Thanks!  I feel a lot better now that I've been welcomed here by the kind folks who just replied.  You see, I'm not accustomed to these chat rooms - and it's only the second one I've been in, and I didn't know if I should introduce myself, or just slide into conversations. 

Anyway, what do you all think of pianists who do not memorize their music?  When I first learned to play music - for quite a number of years, I was not motivated to love it, and was also not asked to memorize anything.  So as an adult, many years later,  memorization is a real challenge for me.  Fortunately, I do love the music!  I realize that makes me less of a real pianist than many of you out there, but I can still play some pieces well (OK, somewhat reasonably well), just not memorized.  This is my greatest weakness in playing, i.e. among other weaknesses.  The problem is that because I'm not trained in doing this (although I have done it for piano juries), it takes me too long, and hence by the time I'm partway through a piece, I have lost interest in it, because I'm not very patient.  I still have a great interest in learning to play well, but I have low motivation to memorize.   I understand the music, I pay great attention to phrasing, touch, tone, interpretation, contrasting ideas,  and using the right technique to get to the sound I want to achieve, but I can't motivate myself to memorize!! This must sound really odd to you pianists out there, but unfortunately, it is true for me.  Is there anyone else out there like me or am I among the rare minority??

Funny thing is that I can memorize songs quite well, as I'm trained to memorize songs from very early on.   

[bartolomeo_]

I don't memorize stuff.  It's too much work.

I play in church on Sunday mornings (piano and organ) and every Sunday is something different.  I don't usually reuse a piece for at least six months, and many pieces I play once then forget.  Memorizing is a valuable skill particularly if you're playing pieces at the limits of your ability but there's a lot to be said for being comfortable playing from a score, too.

[pianistwannabe]

I have played for church regularly too, although I currently am taking a temporary halt because of a short-term major project.  None of the organists and pianists I know who play for church memorize their music either.  And I also didn't.  Most of them are focusing on getting a large amount of music up to speed in a short term to be serviceable, and sight reading becomes the most critical skill used. 

I still think memorization is very important, but I don't have any occassion really to perform memorized music since most of my music is church related.  So I'm just not sure how to motivate myself since I don't have to do it, now that juries are over.  I also don't have time to do it since I use the keyboard in my line of work, and have to depend on accurate score reading much more. 

I'm just curious, do most people on the forum think that unless one can play from memory, one is not a true musician?  I'd just like to really know once and for all. 

[bennom]

What a stupid question.

It does not depend on whether you memorize it or not.

If you are a great musician (are you?), don't worry about memorizing.

If you are not a great musician, then memorize something, for god's sake. It will not harm you.

[pianistwannabe]

Bennom - what is your point exactly?  It sounds like you are trying to insult me.  I don't think that's cool in this forum, or any other forum......

[bennom]

Bennom - what is your point exactly?  It sounds like you are trying to insult me.  I don't think that's cool in this forum, or any other forum......

I would never judge a musician upon his memorizing skills. It does not matter whether you play from memory or not, if you do it well.

I personally memorize all solo repertoire, except modern. Why? Because if I stop doing it, I would get comfortable in playing with score. And then it would be very hard to start playing without music again.

So, I put a lot of time on memorizing. After the concert, the pieces tend to fade again. So for the next concert, I have to do it all over again.

Hard work. Memorizing is good... for your memory.

That's my point. Am I insulting you?

[henrah]

Welcome my dear Wannabe, and enjoy the peaches!

[pianistwannabe]

Thanks Henrah for the welcome.  I gather peaches = good stuff? 

Bennom - Your second reply was a real answer but your last line is still an unnecessary jab.  I guess you get your kick out of doing this sort of thing??

I think for a regular solo performer at concerts, memorization makes a lot of sense .  Since I don't perform at concerts as a solo pianist, it still doesn't make sense for me.  What would I memorize it for, and when do I stop, since I don't have an end point (like a concert??) I still haven't found the reason to do the work for me.  Don't get me wrong.  I do a lot of other work (very hard work by the way) relating to music - I'm in the music field, so those of you working in this field know how much work that can involve - and I do other forms of music memorization for what I do (but I'm allowed to have my score in front of me).  Currently my keyboard skills are being used for functional purposes, like in teaching, accompaniment, etc., but my solo rep is (at the moment) only for my own enjoyment - hence no real end point.  In fact, it's even hard to determine when I'm done with a piece, and to move on to something else.  I usually do that when the inspiration for that piece goes away, regardless of level of learning. 

For those who play for their own enjoyment - when do you move on to something else?  For me, the music has to inspire me throughout the period I play it, or I can't continue with it.  Some pieces have more lasting effect than others.  What are your experiences?

[donjuan]

welcome to the family, wannabe! 

no, i do not think memorization has anything to do with musicianship, but it is an indication of experience (or lack of).  This just takes time and lots of patience, which you claim not to have.

I can still play some pieces well (OK, somewhat reasonably well), just not memorized.  This is my greatest weakness in playing, i.e. among other weaknesses.  The problem is that because I'm not trained in doing this (although I have done it for piano juries), it takes me too long, and hence by the time I'm partway through a piece, I have lost interest in it, because I'm not very patient.

 
It took me years of daily practice to develop memorization skills.  if it (and sigtreading) were so easy, more people would be musicians.

Bennom's first post is a bit insensitive, claiming your question was stupid, but he makes a good point about musicianship not depending on memorization. 

it's really not that hard, but it is made easier if you know your chords and fingering.  it also depends on the composer (Mozart and Chopin are very difficult to memorize, in my opinion, while Rachmaninoff and Liszt are easier)

For those who play for their own enjoyment - when do you move on to something else?  For me, the music has to inspire me throughout the period I play it, or I can't continue with it.  Some pieces have more lasting effect than others.  What are your experiences?

Well, think about concert pianists.  Van Cliburn, for example, has played that Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto for over 30 years!  I wonder myself how one can stop from getting so sick of playing the same piece over and over..

then it hit me- they dont practice it all the time!  Like myself, I have been working on Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 for over a year now.  A month ago, I played it for my teacher (because I have to play it in competition in May.)  He told me that it felt like I subconsciously tried to add little annoying mannerisms to the performance to make it more interesting for myself.  He told me that the piece was going stale from overpracticing and lack of interest on my part.  He recommended that I walk away from it for a while (like a week maybe) and come back to it.  Of course, I would have to come back and maybe relearn a few of the notes I had forgotten from lack of practice, but musically, everything comes to me fresh and it feels like a new piece! 

and since I had learned it once before, it didn't take long to get it back to it's technical state again (a piece I havent touched for 4 months takes me maybe 4 hours to get back).  I think this is how pianists keep a piece for a lifetime without getting tired of it. 

Learn new pieces if you feel you want to.  and then, after having the satisfaction of learning something new, go back to what you left behind.  You will find it very easy to get up to par again, I promise! also, you will have new ideas, as you have forgotten the ones you got tired of before.

Now, the fact that you struggle with memorization might make this a little difficult at first, but really, time and practice is the only way to improve.  Not to mention that adults don't learn new skills as easily as they could when they were young (Josef Hoffmann makes a depressing little chart in his book "Piano Playing").  But it's still possible, and always well worth the effort, so keep at it! 

donjuan

[pianistwannabe]

Don Juan - I don't know how people earn their stars on this forum, but you certainly deserve the 5 stars you get for your thoughtful and meaningful answer, which I appreciate very much.  Thanks for making feel less like a second class citizen. 

I am not young - my son is 14 - and memorizes beautifully and easily - so I can't learn from him how he memorizes because it just happens - no technique required, and practically effortless!  By the time he hears me practise my piece over and over, he's already memorized it by listening to me!   

But when I have time, the little of it available, I'll try to work on memory, if its possible in one's middle age.  I think this is what I'll do - I won't try to memorize the more difficult pieces I work on for now - those I play just for wanting to enjoy the music - but I'll pick easy pieces to practise memorization - how does that sound?  Then I won't have to work on other things as much - just focus on memorization. 

[donjuan]

Don Juan - I don't know how people earn their stars on this forum, but you certainly deserve the 5 stars you get for your thoughtful and meaningful answer, which I appreciate very much.  Thanks for making feel less like a second class citizen.  

thanks!

But when I have time, the little of it available, I'll try to work on memory, if its possible in one's middle age.  I think this is what I'll do - I won't try to memorize the more difficult pieces I work on for now - those I play just for wanting to enjoy the music - but I'll pick easy pieces to practise memorization - how does that sound?  Then I won't have to work on other things as much - just focus on memorization.

yeah, 3 years back, I got a book of simplified wedding music just for the sake of learning to sightread and memorize, but I got bored with it really fast.  This just made it even harder to get motivated to work on skills.  I improved most when working on pieces I sincerely enjoyed listening to and wanted to be able to play for a period of time afterwards.

But everyone's different, so no harm trying this if you like.  For me, learning memorization by doing simple pieces I don't like sounds like trying to learn to study by reading boring textbooks about things I'm not interested in. 

[prometheus]

Bennom - Your second reply was a real answer but your last line is still an unnecessary jab.  I guess you get your kick out of doing this sort of thing??

You said that you are new to the concept of internet forums. This is common behavior. The way people act on message boards is that they do not realise that they are interacting with other people. People will be blunt and insulting while they wouldn't be in reality. And they will not even realise it. Frankly, I think it may actually be impossible to be social, as one would be when in personal contact, on a message board.

Let me say this from a lot of experience, everyone you meet on a message board, no matter how cool or nice, will be a lot cool or nicer in real life.


So if you search for insults, like you did above, then you will have a hard time on message boards everywhere on the internet. Really, if you feel insulted when someone says your question is stupid then maybe the internet is not the place for you.

And if you show 'weakness', like you did by asking if we would accept you, which is a strange question that implies all kinds of things that shouldn't be implied, then some people will 'lash out' at you as a pack of hungry hyenas. And this without the intention of being unfriendly or mean. It is the nature of (humans and) the internet, probably because of the lack of non-verbal communications and personal contact.

So really, you don't have to feel as a second rate citizen, the concept doesn't exist on the internet. But I think you already got the hang of it. You answered bennom's 'unnecessary jab' with an unnecessary jab of your own

[pianistwannabe]

Don Juan - the point you raised about the simple music is a valid one.  No, I wasn't thinking quite that simple - more like something from  Bach's Little Preludes - still a lot of technique involved, and I love Bach so I never get bored with his music. 

Thanks again.

[penguinlover]

I am fairly new to the forum too.  I enjoy reading the various responses, and am amused at some.  Sometimes they do seem to be very blunt, but as the conversation goes on, it "evens itself out" so to speak. 

I find myself in your position pianistwannabe (I think).  As an older adult, I can't memorize as well as when I was younger.  Maybe that's the wrong approach.  I think I can memorize, but just don't have the desire, time, or motivation.  I play in church several times a week.  The music is not at all challenging, and my sight reading skills are the only thing I really use.  (I am in a very small church).  Not being a concert pianist (a dream I gave up to have a family), I find the only challenge I have is given by myself.  I agree with you, when is a piece done?  That's a hard question.  I read somewhere in the forum that we are never completely satisfied with how we play a piece.  So, I think a piece is done when you are tired of it. 

I wish I had hours a day to practice like some of these others, but life hits, and reality hits, and sometimes it just can't happen.  So just do what you can, and enjoy it. I think whenver it stops being enjoyable, change something.  I am rambling, sorry.  Probably should be practicing, not on this computer.  Ha!  Bye for now

[pianistwannabe]

Hi Penguinlover - how did you come up with that name?  Did you see "March of the Penguins?" - if you haven't, you must.   Sorry about diversion, but it was great to get your reply, and someone who understands. 

I played for the church (last couple of years, but these 2 months taking  a break due to a big project).  Just wanted to say something about church music. I notice many church musicians who depend upon sight reading skills (VERY important for those playing for churches or any accompaniment jobs).  But I came across 3 musicians who changed my mind about depending mostly on sight reading - although their sight reading is also very good.  Three come to mind.  Two of them were my organ teachers, both EXCELLENT musicians.  One I watched her working at my church.  She insisted on only taking a job that let her play every other week, because she wanted to dedicate her time to practising.  All her reps, she prepared for a good month or so before she presented them so she had a staggered schedule of repertoire practise.  She chose rather  challenging pieces to play - all hands and feet flying at full speed - I just loved watching her.  She spends on the average 5 hours at the church organ per week practising, but more hours at home on her own smaller organ.  She approached her practise of church music the same way I would (ideally) approach the practise of classical music (as my teachers would like me to anyway).   

Another was a young man who was a Phd student in engineering at a well known Uni. close by.  Organ and Piano were his passions and he played for fun.  He played serious classical music - lots of Bach fugues for example, and he was still taking lessons and used these pieces at his lessons. 

So I started to follow their examples as I played every other week for about 2 years, and developed a repertoire of church and classical music on a rolling roster of about a month at a time - i.e. giving myself that much time to come up to speed (not memorized, but to play expressively).  I combined classical music and intermediate to advanced level hymn tunes that are rewritten into classical styles - many of which challeneged me for a long time.  And I brought them into my piano teacher (who didn't mind the non-classical rep so long as they were sufficiently challenging to teach me something musically.)  But since I didn't have to perform weekly, but every other week, I had more time to prepare it to a level that I found somewhat satisfactory, and I reused the music the following year or sometimes half year later, and when I reused a piece, I try to challenge myself to bring it up to the next level. 

In this way, I found that it was possible to make church playing challenging, and it was to me.  I miss it now that I'm not doing it, but will soon return to it.  I find I lack motivation to bring pieces up to speed when I don't perform regularly. 

By the way, I'm glad to hear another person say that the time to let a piece go is when one gets tired of it - I guess there is really no point forcing it at that point.   

Take care!

Kwok

[penguinlover]

Pianistwannabe,
    I began collecting penguins when I was in High School.  My home now has been invaded by them!  I have them everywhere!  And yes, I did watch March of the Penguins, I received the DVD as a Christmas present.  I already knew much of what they told due to my penguin studies.

     Back to piano.  My church is so small (less than 100) and classical music just wouldn't do.  We do mostly music from Passion, and modern rock stuff.  As I said, NO CHALLENGE.  I am trying to push myself to learn classical pieces that I like, I probably will never perform them.  I have worked on some Mark Hayes church music.  Some of that is a little challenging.  I even met him last week.  He said that most of his music could be sight read, but that's only for people like him.  He as an arrangement of "The Old Rugged Cross" that I am going to purchase.  I heard him perform it in a concert last week, and it is an awesome piece.    I challenge myself to perform with one of my students who is at a  level to do that.  We have played one duet (piano & keyboard).  We are working on one for Easter.  Oh well, thanks for the post.

[gruffalo]

hi, welcome to pianostreet. you seem to be a nice fellow. regarding patonality's talk about attitudes on the forum, there are people who deliberately group tease weaker people on the forum. just show a strong mind, or just show you dont care, or act like the grey man and you will  be fine. anyone can say anything to me, but i couldnt care less so i just throw it back at them with bananas. by the way i am a very random person which the randomness you will see more of.

about the memorization, i think it improves technique. if you are out there to become a pro, then it is essential. if you play piano just for pleasure, then do what you like doing. if you have fun doing what you do now, then dont change it.

i would say 80% of the regulars here are decent, so you should be ok.

Gruff

[bennom]

hi, welcome to pianostreet. you seem to be a nice fellow. regarding patonality's talk about attitudes on the forum, there are people who deliberately group tease weaker people on the forum.

Gruff

Hello! I'm the so-called "group teaser".

Would anyone care to join me, since I'm all alone...!

I read pianistwannabe's question, I found it stupid, and I stated it promptly.

I would do so with any type of question such as

"Will I become a great pianist if I perform in tuxedo?"

"Is it necessary to play mozart to be a great musician??"

"Is Lang Lang the greatest pianist ever? Must I be Chinese to play like him???"

 

[gruffalo]

i wasnt talking about you. you just prob one of the ones who cant read what they type or see it from the other end.

[bennom]

you just prob one of the ones who cant read what they type or see it from the other end.

Yep, I'm one of those!

[pianistwannabe]

Gruffalo - thanks for the post and welcome - much appreciated.  I'm learning to get real thick skinned......):   Re: memorization, it's good for me, so I'm memorizing a Bach prelude now....just so I don't completely forget the skill now that juries are done with.  I don't know if I'll keep it up, but this forum is challening me to, so I will try. 

Penguinlover - about the church size - 100 is not small, really, unless you're accustomed to huge evangelistic type churches.  But what really matters is their taste, not the size, I think, and where are located, and the sophistication of the audience.  I first started playing regularly at one with only a few, most of whom were half deaf and half asleep.  It was great because it gave me the performance experience of playing in public without much fear (since most can't hear me anyway....), and then when I got more confidant, I  started to volunteer to play for a sophisticated audience of folks who don't have as many hearing problems.....  ): 

Some further suggestions for church rep -

Fred Bock - very challenging but would keep interest
Anna Laura Page
Lloyd Larson
Cindy Berry

They are usually graded by levels - so choose whatever is comfy for you.  The intermediate - advanced are not sight readable.  Besides, its not challenging to learn signt-readable music because the fun dries up after a couple of rounds.  So I understand about that 

Bach preludes should be welcome by most churches - after all, he composed a lot of music for church and his life was spent doing that.  I also select parts of Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, etc. that would fit in for prelude or postlude, and selectively do sections of a classical piece I'm working on that would fit.  I may modify how a section ends a little to fit it in.  Once I even played Rachmaninoff's Elegie - first couple of pages for prelude.  Can't play it anymore, as I  haven't done it in awhile. 

Your place should be fun to visit - with all those penguins.....


Kwok

[gruffalo]

just a pointer, if you want to learn to get better with memorization, i would start with more chordy pieces. certainly dont start trying to learn by memorizing Bach or Mozart. try Chopin Etude op. 25 no.1 . this was a good starting point to developing my memorization skills and it devlopes technique. ask a teacher for a few tips on how to memorize it and it should make things a bit more easier.

[penguinlover]

Pianistwannabe,
   Thanks for the tips.  I think that electric music is pushing me out of a job so to speak.  The preludes now are tapes played as people enter.  The only time I have a solo is during the offering, which is rather short in a small church.  100 people is a GREAT Sunday, most days there are less than 60.  Anyway, back to music.  I haven't looked yet for those books, but I will.  We don't have great music stores around here, but I guess there's always the internet.  I like to actually put my hands on the music and play it before I buy, but I guess I am being picky.

   And thank, I think my home is a fun one.  Take a penguin wherever you go, and your day will be great! 

[punch]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,122.0.html

[pianistwannabe]

Penguinlover,

Ouch - I would not play for a church that uses a CD for preludes.  Do you  think that if you begin practising some really good preludes and offered to play them, they would take that instead of the CD?  I know that sometimes churches do that when they think they don't have a choice, and can't afford to hire a musician, or they're attached certain kind of pop style music that requires a full band!!  If it's the latter, I personally couldn't provide music for them.

You can find any of these music on JW Peppers website.  Google them and you'll get to their website.  And very often, samples of their score image will be available - at least one page so you can print it out and try it out.  You can also google the names of these composers and you'll probably find the publishers who carry them, and they may be able to send you samples too.  Some will let you take a look and if you don't like it, you can return them. 

Regarding playing for less than 100, this is what I think.  Even if there is one person there who appreciates good music, it's worth playing well for that one person.  Don't worry about the number - it's not that important.  I'm very used to playing for small services, and I practise for those the same way as I would for a large one - no more, no less.   Except that at the large services, I have to use the organ, and because I'm not a well trained organist, it takes me a lot longer to get the music in shape, so in that sense, I put in more time.  My philosophy is that even if I edified one person with what I do, it's worth the work.  Besides, small group settings are more intimate - it feels like chamber music.  I kind of like that myself.   

Anyway, good luck with your  church music!  And if this church doesn't appreciate what you have to offer, find another that will!


Kwok

[penguinlover]

No can do Kwok, I am the pastor's wife!

[pianistwannabe]

Hi Penguinlover - sorry about my previous comments about switching - I  didn't know you are the pastor's wife.  Yes, you're right - of course you can't just work somewhere else.  Well, the church is just fortunate to have you play for them.  I thought you were a paid pianist for this church, hence my comments.   I am sure your church members appreciate your services to them. 

Kwok

[penguinlover]

Kwok,
   That's Ok, none of us knows much about anyone on the forum.  There's no way you could have known.  I shouldn 't complain about the music, or my situation, just try to better it.  Your encouragement was welcome.

[elevateme]

pianist wannabe whats your problem with bennom? you seem to be trying to get the whole forum on your side against a respected & decent poster.

[pianistwannabe]

deleted post.

[penguinlover]

pianistwannabe,
    Thanks.  It was thoughtful of you.  I listened and really enjoyed it.  You didn't do poorly at all, it was quite relaxing.  Thanks again.
   
                          penquin lover

[pianistwannabe]

Penguinlover,

I haven't been on this site for awhile, so was surprised to read that you actually heard it as I deleted it.  You are very kind to say that.  After I listened to it again, I freaked out so much that I just deleted it altogether.  So I'm glad to hear you did enjoy it before I took if off. 

Happy Easter! 

pianistwannabe

[penguinlover]

Pianistwannabe,
    I haven't been on for a while either.  Easter was good, but we did a choir performance in the evening that was perfectly awful!  My daughter sang the part of Mary, and she was great.  The rest was........!

   I think it was brave to post a recording of yourself.  I don't know how to do that kind of stuff, my kids probably do, but they are all in college.  Anyway, even if I did, I don't think I would be brave enough to do it.  When I was small, I was always the best pianist, so I was very confident.  When I got to college, I realized that there are many people who play the piano better than me, so my confidence was shattered (along with my pride).  Now, I am the best in my own little world.  Small town, small church, no teacher, etc.  But, I know what exists out in the world, and am not confident with myself at all. 

  I am trying to practice more that my kids are out of the house (except for weekends when they bring home their laundry).  Even with good intentions, I don't get the practice time I would like.  I find that since I am older, I have more trouble concentrating on piano like I used to.   I am going to try to find a teacher for this summer, but that in itself will be a task.  Got to find one that's not too expensive, and that shares my ideals.  How does one take lessons again?  What will I play?  I can't play my college or High School pieces well anymore.  Guess I could play a hymn, scales, or the pieces of the music I do remember.  I am rambling, sorry.  Just letting off steam, frustrations, etc.  Hope you are having a good week.

[ed_thomas]

This looks like as good a place to butt in as any.     I posted sparsely on this board a few years ago before it went commercial and somehow couldn't sign on as me.  So I'm new again.  Maybe I should take the opportunity to be a whole new person now that I'm 1/2 century old.  Hmmmm....

Anyway, it is refreshing to read two other people in very similar circumstances.  I'm the volunteer piano player for a small rural church.  Every Sunday I try to play something fresh and different.  On those classical pieces during meditations, I work pretty hard at home.  The communal hymns are entirely sight-read.  The choir accompaniment is a bit of both.

On the memorizing... I take advantage of an annual talent night (Shrove Tuesday) to play something from memory.  I found that if I didn't memorize the piece, I was more limited technically and musically.  Once I started doing that, I started looking for excuses to memorize something, such as selecting a distant friend or family member and preparing for that.  My guess is that unless you have a specific performance goal, it is pretty difficult to stay with a piece through perfecting, much less the drudgery of memorizing.

Another refreshing observation is that is nice to read from other people that gaze at the stars knowing they are out of reach, but play anyway.  I no longer feel like I'm a failure for never being any good.  I just like to play and to share.  The church members seem to appreciate that.

[penguinlover]

Ed thomas,
   Thanks for the encouragement.  I am past the half century mark! (not by much)  We have started getting three or four churches together for a music night.  I play there, and play duets with my students.  Our church is so small that even for the offertory I can only play for at most a minute.  Classical stuff is pretty much out.  I could play the first two lines and the last maybe. 
                                                  Penguinlover

[ed_thomas]

Hi, PenguinLover:  Actually, I've found a lot of one and two page pieces over the last few years that are just the ticket.  I try to keep to original stuff, but even some of the arrangements work.  I've probably slipped in over half of Burgmuller Op 100 by now.  Every few months, I do the first half of a Scarlatti sonata.  The Tschaikovsy Album for the Young has some short meditative pieces.  I just rummage around looking for fairly simple stuff that can be made to sound prayerful.  Rameau, Bach...

The organist showed me to write the date last played on the music and I try not to play something more than every two years unless I REALLY like it.   We are both members of the church.  The pastor has a degree in composition and directs the choir.  He arranges almost everything we do.  So our dinky little church gets a whole lot of good music for free.   Good thing, since we couldn't afford it otherwise!  I've even told the piano tuner to let me know if the bill doesn't get paid and I'll try to cover it.  Haven't had to yet, but I know it's always a possibility.  We muddle along and I like it that way.

What startled me about your posts was that I had been thinking about asking publicly here for ideas for additional pieces that fit that niche... 2 minutes or less... that are meditative and contribute to the service without necessarily being church music in origin.

Pianistwannabe:  Sorry for sort of hijacking your thread.  I really am interested in your question as it has been on my mind a lot for the last few months.  Memorizing never comes easy to me, and information on this would be helpful.  I read a lot of Bernhard's posts on the topic awhile back and they helped a lot.  As I said, I seem to only be able to memorize if I'm targeting a chance to play for some unsuspecting person, like my sister or mother, or a performance event like our annual church show.

[penguinlover]

I would like to blame the difficulty or memorizing on my age, but then I would have to admit that I am old.  So I don't, and I continue to struggle in this area.  I don't even remember scripture verses the way I used to.  I want to say young enough to think, reason, and memorize.  Then again, think of the alternative.

[ed_thomas]

PenguinLover:  In between our two recent posts, I downloaded the Chang book (see the nearby post by "CC" in this Student's Corner) and boyhowdy there's some good stuff in there.  I heard about the book quite awhile ago and for some dumb reason didn't realize it was available as a download.  I think it might address some real frustrations on my part, as I glanced over it and read the intro.

I also think the age thing is... dang...now, I forget what I was going to say... 

[penguinlover]

Ed,
   Thanks, ..... I think.
                                 Penguinlover

I will look at the book. I heard about it on another thread, just haven't downloaded it yet.  I hate to read books on the computer.  Give me a hard copy.

[shoshin]

The problem is that because I'm not trained in doing this (although I have done it for piano juries), it takes me too long, and hence by the time I'm partway through a piece, I have lost interest in it, because I'm not very patient.  I still have a great interest in learning to play well, but I have low motivation to memorize.   I understand the music, I pay great attention to phrasing, touch, tone, interpretation, contrasting ideas,  and using the right technique to get to the sound I want to achieve, but I can't motivate myself to memorize!!

Well if you find a way to memorize without patience, motivation, or trying then let me know.  For me I have to find a piece that a REALLY like to memorize it because it is such a commitment.

[ed_thomas]

PenguinLover:  I absolutely agree with you on the reading books online.  I printed the whole thing out and binderized it.   I see there is quite a bit of discussion on it again.  I sure hope it helps as I have hit some pretty hard walls in playing and can't see any reason for them other than plain ignorance.  There are so many pieces I want to play that are JUST out of reach.  Like a big tease.  I like what I read so far.

shoshin:  I sorta read pianistwannabe's confession as a cry for help in acquiring these characteristics in playing the piano.   I think the answer must be in somehow transfiguring the learning from drudgery to joy.  If the return is too slow for the amount of work, that probably won't happen very often.  You probably addressed the single biggest issue -- if you love the piece, you will want to spend time with it.   So far, I've learned that the faster I get the memorizing done, the less a chore it is.  I'm not fed up with the piece before I've learned it.

[the doctor]

Hi I'm new too so just wanted to say hello!


I'm not that great at memorizing but I found that if you break a piece up inot chunks then it makes it easier....

[star73]

 

Hi I'm new too - posting from Sunny London!  I found this website via an insert in the Rhinegold Piano magazine which I was sent today.  I wonder if anybody else has discovered this website in this way?  I'd not heard of it before but think it is ace.

I find memorizing a challenge but I've learnt to enjoy it.  Break the piece up into section as you see fit. If it's a nasty bit make that section shorter.  I remember memorizing the 3rd Chopin etude in this way and have used the same technique to memorize ever since.

Once you have played a piece from memory a few times then trust your fingers to do the work for you in a performance situation.  You might think you'll blank out but you won't and it is the most amazing feeling to play a piece from memory and looks so professional.

Good luck.

Star73