\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Beethoven - 3rd MVT of Moonlight sonata (Read 4399 times)

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Beethoven - 3rd MVT of Moonlight sonata
« on: April 01, 2006, 11:06:06 AM »
Hi i recorded this recently so that i can critically examine it before performing it, apart the obvious errors its not too bad. Any helpfull comments is appreciated.

 
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

piano sheet music of Sonata 14 (Moonlight)


Offline airasia

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #1 on: April 02, 2006, 04:22:09 AM »
I think it's not bad except maybe the tempo changes too much from the arpeggio sections compared to the other sections (arpeggios are faster) and you can't really hear the trills.  Also I think there's too much pedal during the arpeggios but if you're trying to do that, whatever that's your thing.  Oh and lastly, right before the coda you totally change the last 4 chords or so

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #2 on: April 02, 2006, 07:22:41 AM »
.  Oh and lastly, right before the coda you totally change the last 4 chords or so

 Thanks airasia i do agree with those observasions you have made, however am having trouble finding those last 4 chords in this MVT, there are no 4 last chords as far as i know.  ::)
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline pianistimo

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12143
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #3 on: April 02, 2006, 11:20:41 AM »
there's no doubt you have dexterity.  as with my working the waldstein, first you learn it and then you start manipulating it a bit more.  more crescendos and decrescendos here and there.  more consistency between what you do here and there (lengths of notes).  you won't have missing notes/unheard notes or unevenness in your playing.

you have the capacity to play beethoven well.  don't take his music so literally.  start dreaming.  that's in essence what my teacher told me about mozart.  make some sections have a different quality of sound than the others (ie middle section).  it all sounds similar in the approach.

you have a sense of voice and voicing.  needs more fluidity and not choppiness still, though.  when you switch registers - don't be in such a hurry.  make it like you're having a dialogue with yourself.  (you hit some wrong notes from hurrying too much).  not talking tempo so much as not 'rushing' everywhere.

very manly!   need help on your trills to not focus on top note.

**how did you get the recording to repeat three times?

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #4 on: April 02, 2006, 11:56:52 AM »

**how did you get the recording to repeat three times?

  What do you mean repeat three time, i recorded it once and uploaded thar one.

  Thanks anyway for the comments i vil see what i can do.  ::)

 
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline letters

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #5 on: April 02, 2006, 07:17:05 PM »
it gets a bit out of control sometimes tempo wise but you have lots of flair while playing :)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination

Offline kelly_kelly

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 831
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #6 on: April 02, 2006, 07:33:16 PM »
It works now  :D.

Some sections are very good, and some are a bit off. Your tempo varies signifcantly (I shouldn't be talking; I just recieved the world's worst lecture on tempo control from my teacher) from passage to passage. What you need (again, this is what my teacher tells me) is a metronome and some SLOW practice  :P.

 However, you have obviously gotten the notes, which is an accomplishment in itself. It's funny... you sound a lot like I think I will after I learn all the notes to this mvt (if that happens).
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #7 on: April 02, 2006, 08:25:55 PM »
Thanks Kelly_Kelly and letters your comments are very helpfull.

  The thing about the tempo it goes horribly wrong at bar 43 - 56 it slows down therefore sounding disappointing, must remember to keep the momentum going.
Generally speaking this MVT must be playd presto agitato. Anyway this is the reason why i recorded it so that i can spot these thing.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline bearzinthehood

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 08:18:57 AM »
I wouldn't have minded if you went a bit slower in exchange for more continuity and care in phrasing.

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #9 on: April 05, 2006, 08:40:14 PM »
I wouldn't have minded if you went a bit slower in exchange for more continuity and care in phrasing.

  You are right, its out of control.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline martha argerrrrrich

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #10 on: April 06, 2006, 02:46:06 PM »
  You are right, its out of control.

Well done Zheer! ;D

Offline mcgillcomposer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 839
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #11 on: April 11, 2006, 08:45:18 AM »
OK...please do not take this as an insult, I am simply trying to provide constructive criticism. It is not an easy piece, so I congratulate you for simply getting through it. Now...the issues:

1) tempo fluctuations - this has already been discussed so I will not elaborate except for one point which works in your favour. Beethoven is known to have fluctuated tempos when the mood of the piece changed...therefore, as long as you do it convincingly, and do not vary the tempo every few measures, the tempo fluctuations can be quite effective.

2) it is advisable to follow the composer's indications (i.e. do not put accents where Beethoven did not write them, do not use pedal where it is not indicated by the composer)

3) you have a dynamic range of about mezzo-forte to fortissimo...if I recall correctly (I haven't played this in 2 years) the piece encompases a dynamic range of pp - ff.

4) In the more lyrical theme (right after the opening arpeggiated section), you often do not follow the articulation (particularly the staccato markings).

5) Often you simply do not count properly...you rush (last two chords for example)

That's all I will say for now...I think it should give you some things to think about.  Anyway, keep u the good work :)

- Andrew



Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline dickreuter

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #12 on: April 12, 2006, 10:13:04 AM »
Overall very enjoyable, congratulations!

Here some comments:
- I agree with the previous comments that the tempo is varying too much. The arpeggios are a bit too fast

- In certain passages you should focus more on the melody. For example in the passage starting at 6min 20sec the right hand should be more in the background and you may even play it a bit slowlier there. Similar in passage at 3min 15sec. Sing the melody!

- I like the way you play the passage starting at 15sec

Offline qwerty quaver

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #13 on: April 14, 2006, 10:04:46 AM »
Thumbs up for having overall mastered the piece!

I will not repeat the things said but will underline that you've got to follow the melody since the accompaniment has to provide support to the melody.
I would also suggest you listen to Lugansky's interpretation which I personnally quite like. Of course, it should only act as a guideline and should help you to see more clearly how to correct your problems.

Otherwise, lots of gusto and character in your playing which is good. Keep it up! ;D

QQ
There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
- Johann Sebastian Bach

Offline lostinidlewonder

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5754
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #14 on: April 15, 2006, 09:55:43 AM »
Well you got the notes (careful about the ornamentations though). Now you have to decide how to play them well. The arpeggios in the opening have no body to them, and as they are contintually repeated throughout the piece it just feels empty. Your hands seems pretty heavy, this is especially evident in staccato parts like from 2:51. It should be much lighter there, it just seems to drag in sound. Left hand octave tremolo from like 4:03 is way too heavy Lh octaves in 5:53.. etc. So lighten up the touch, control things more evenly..... otherwise good effort so far!
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.facebook.com/groups/348933611793249/

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 356
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #15 on: April 15, 2006, 03:25:15 PM »
I wish I could play like that  :o Nice performance, although there is alot of things I could point out that are wrong.

However I will say this, The start with the arpeggios are too fast, too much pedal and is out of time. I feel that they are rushed and the chords at the end come in too early, the first one is ok but the second and third you can hear you are rushing with the chords coming in too early, and then after the 3 long arpeggios after that you have the 2 short ones which you play too slow, it seems like it drags a little, either speed those last 2 short ones up or slow down the first 3 longer arpeggios. Also a little uneven. When I play this I only use pedal on the two repeated chords at the end of each arpeggio (maybe its the recording).

There are some ornaments/trills that you still need to bring out more, I cannot hear alot of them at all, at around 57 seconds that chord needs to come in quicker (I think you might know that, I know its hard to get there and hit it accuractly so quickly, but the gap stands out a mile.)

I could say alot mroe but im tired, need sleep. Keep practicing, I wish I could play it as well as you have.

Offline zheer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2780
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #16 on: April 25, 2006, 07:28:11 PM »
Thanks guys for your comments.  ;)
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline airasia

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
Re: The 3rd MVT of Beethovens Moonlight sonata
«Reply #17 on: May 03, 2006, 06:21:50 AM »
Thanks airasia i do agree with those observasions you have made, however am having trouble finding those last 4 chords in this MVT, there are no 4 last chords as far as i know.  ::)

Haven't been here for a while, just checked some old posts I made, anyway... no one else notices this but me?  Maybe i meant to say right before the arpeggios in the coda it's totally changed.  Right around 6:38.