Exercises

[soliloquy]

Ok.  So I have my first student and he's semi-competent, like he can read music and play John Thompson type stuff, and I need to know what exercises to have him use.

Like, Hanon, Czerny, Liszt, Bartok etc.?

[emmdoubleew]

PURELY my opinion:

For beggining students: Czerny, Schmitt (not very famous but really useful: hold down a note or two while you play excercises in the others. Fiendishly difficult!). Of course, never neglect scales an arpeggios

[mike_lang]

I would think it wise to begin with Czerny (so long as he is also doing scales/arpeggi/chords), then as he progresses, move him through others like Moscheles, Moskowski, Chopin, Liszt.  Also, Brahms has some interesting exercises, op. 50-something, that are worth a gander.

[bernhard]

None whatsoever.

Just work on repertory s/he loves and that is either easy or challenging, but never difficult or impossible.

For the full story have a look here:

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8981.msg91081.html#msg91081
(repertory x purely technical exercises to acquire technique)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15879.0.html
(play only what you love – difficult x challenging pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2429.msg21061.html#msg21061
(Technical studies x pieces – the genesis of Studies and how Czerny derived his exercises from Beethoven sonatas - why scales are useless and at the same time essential – Chopin x Kalkbrenner story – Unorthodox fingering for scales).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3625.msg32673.html#msg32673
(PPI –  comparison with body building – brief mention of movement and intellectual centre – comparison with babies walking and coma patients- muscle tension and nerve inhibition – how to investigate and test practice ideas – How to teach by using progressively difficult repertory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2619.msg104249.html#msg104249
(Scale fingering must be modified according to the piece – Godard op. 149 no.5 – yet another example of the folly of technical exercises)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,2619.msg104249.html#msg104249
(Scale fingering must be modified according to the piece – Godard op. 149 no.5 – yet another example of the folly of technical exercises)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4385.msg41226.html#msg41226
(technique is personal and relative to the piece – Fosberry flop – the best books on technique)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4734.msg44770.html#msg44770
(how to acquire virtuoso technique – aiming at 100 pieces in five years)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5352.msg50998.html#msg50998
(Exercises x repertory – why technique cannot be isolated from music – analogy with warmup in the martial arts – dynamic flexibility and co-ordination – how to do high kicks without warming up)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5375.msg51272.html#msg51272
(Defending technicalexercises – two different philosophies regarding exercises – chopstick analogy)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time – or not -  summary of arguments and many relevant links)

Tip of the iceberg…

If you are still interested in submitting your poor charge to technical exercises, take your pick here. With few exceptions (e.g. Heller, J. S. Bach) they are all equally useless.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11179.msg117263.html#msg117263
(extensive list of technical exercises and etudes)

Best wishes,

Bernhard

[penguinlover]

Bernhard,
    I just love your advice!  It goes along with what I have been thinking.  But I would like to know how you have time to read all those books, practice, and advise us all on the piano forum?  You are amazing!

[bernhard]

Bernhard,
    I just love your advice!  It goes along with what I have been thinking.  But I would like to know how you have time to read all those books, practice, and advise us all on the piano forum?  You are amazing!

   I am glad you enjoyed it. 
   
   The explanation is simple: I have no life.
   
 

   Best wishes
   Bernhard.

[martha argerrrrrich]

   I am glad you enjoyed it. 
   
   The explanation is simple: I have no life.
   
 

   Best wishes
   Bernhard.

I have an explanation. Bernhard is Google + anecdotes from Osho, Gurdjieff, Esoteric religions, ideas from other enlightened masters ...There are 2 kinds of people, one that Knows and keeps quiet and one that talks(writes!). They rarely Co-exist. Wait a minute, in Bernhard it co-exists. Wow, he is the One folks!

[penguinlover]

Bernhard is amazing, and I love most everything he says, but let's get real.  He is not God, probably just much more intelligent than me (but that's not too hard to do).  Bernhard I am not glad that you "don't have a life", but whatever you have, I am grateful that you share it with us.

[mike_lang]

Food for thought - if one has to practice octaves when one gets to Tchaikovsky Concerto, isn't it too late?  Double thirds in the Don Juan?  Shifts in Mephisto Waltz?  A lot of these technical things can be covered in etudes and scales so that time does not have to be spent on them later.  I remember my piano teacher talking about Chinese pianists (in general), who do so many technical studies in early years that by the time they get to something like the Don Juan (again), the thirds are chicken feed for them. 

To Bernhard:
What is your opinion on the Chopin Etudes?  Or the Debussy?

Michael

[daniel patschan]

Food for thought - if one has to practice octaves when one gets to Tchaikovsky Concerto, isn't it too late?  Double thirds in the Don Juan?  Shifts in Mephisto Waltz?  A lot of these technical things can be covered in etudes and scales so that time does not have to be spent on them later.  I remember my piano teacher talking about Chinese pianists (in general), who do so many technical studies in early years that by the time they get to something like the Don Juan (again), the thirds are chicken feed for them. 

To Bernhard:
What is your opinion on the Chopin Etudes?  Or the Debussy?

Michael

That΄s also my opinion. If you play for example different scales in thirds for a while it will be a lot easier to learn the THIRD study of Chopin. Another benefit from preparatory exercises is that you don΄t destroy the beauty of the musical piece that you are actually learning by repeating and repeating over and over again all the difficult passages.

[mike_lang]

That΄s also my opinion. If you play for example different scales in thirds for a while it will be a lot easier to learn the THIRD study of Chopin. Another benefit from preparatory exercises is that you don΄t destroy the beauty of the musical piece that you are actually learning by repeating and repeating over and over again all the difficult passages.

Beyond that, it allows difficult pieces to be musical studies, rather than technical studies.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

I respect all of your opinions, however I would like to say doing excercises will not harm you, and avoiding them is just another reason to prove that you are lazy. Whilest repertoire is of course essential, studies and other technical material will help with the repertoire. If I just played my repertoire I would not get far. This is just my opinion. The excercises will not hurt, but help.

Best wishes to all.

[bearzinthehood]

Greetings.

I respect all of your opinions, however I would like to say doing excercises will not harm you, and avoiding them is just another reason to prove that you are lazy. Whilest repertoire is of course essential, studies and other technical material will help with the repertoire. If I just played my repertoire I would not get far. This is just my opinion. The excercises will not hurt, but help.

Best wishes to all.

QFT

[clariniano]

I think Faber's technique books, especially the primer and part of the Level 1 technique book, are excellent. I particularly like the Accelerated book 1 Technique Book (and use it in conjunction with the standard  Level 1 Technique book), and Technique 3B books. Also, I like to use the Dozen a Day books for students past the primer level, starting with the light green book. (Book 2, I think)

Also consider taking a look at Schuam's Masters of Technic Book, you can get a free level 1 book from them, it was in last month's issue of Clavier.

Meri

[debussy symbolism]

QFT

What is QFT? Quoted for truth?

Best wishes

[juliax]

Ok.  So I have my first student and he's semi-competent, like he can read music and play John Thompson type stuff, and I need to know what exercises to have him use.

Like, Hanon, Czerny, Liszt, Bartok etc.?

I don't think this thread needed to be more than one post.  You already answered your own question

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Schmitt finger excercises help alot. Of course Czerny. Do not forget scales and arpeggios.

Hope this helps.