back pain during practice

[pianojems]

Hi everybody, I have had a problem for the past 4 years that just doesn't go away. I suddenly started experiencing severe back pain ( Burning and sharp sensations in my upper and mid back) I tried to do everything but nothing helps. My teachers and doctors could not help me with hits problem either. Also I feel extreme tension in my neck and shoulders, because the pain causes me to get tense.Does any of you have or have had the same problem and what is your solution. Practicing is painful to me, but I still do it through a lot of torture. Does anyone have any solutions or advice. :-/

[eddie92099]

Alexander technique,
Ed

[allchopin]

I seem to have the same problem (though I wouldnt say it BURNS and I dont have all the tension)- But I think my pain is derived from carrying a heavy snare drum for four years.

Anyway, I have heard that doing situps will help the vertebrae and will strengthen your back muscles.  Also, when I do a 1-handed push-up (and 1-handed only) my back pops really loud and it is quite satisfying- try that (depending on if you are revolted or not...)

Sometimes when it really hurts, I will resort to using a softer, more ergonimcally helpful chair (like a computer rolling chair).  That bench cant be too good on one's back..

[dj]

yeah i used 2 get similar pains when i played but it was just the result of bad posture. now that i sit up straight at the piano the back doesn't bother me anymore.
btw, allchopin, nothing ever pops when i do one-handed pushups....are you sure this back-popping is an altogether good thing?

[Rach3]

I think awkward posture might be a factor here... do you generally lean forwards over the keyboard? In the long run sitting straight is most effective and healthy too. Observe most concert artists in performance, they usually have impeccable posture. I recently heard a recital by the incredible pianist Stephen Hough, he has the most refined tone I've heard, AND he has excellent posture. He's playing in Carnegie Hall tomorrow, by the way. On the other hand, I think you should directly see a physician quite soon, it sounds as if you're close to getting serious permament damage.

[pianojems]

your right I think I should see a doctor, a different one. I wish I knew what was wrong. It started the summer that I started a job, and maybe I injured myself lifting something. Most people complain about lower back pain, and most specialists out there deal with only with lower back pain. What kind of a specialist do you think I should see?

[allchopin]

Hey Rach3, how can you explain Glenn Gould's posture?

[eddie92099]

Hey Rach3, how can you explain Glenn Gould's posture?

He was a nutter,
Ed

[NetherMagic]

He was a nutter,
Ed

hahaha well said  

[bernhard]

Hi, Pianojems.

Everything said so far is good and helpful in a general way. The Alexander technique is good and so are sit-ups (more for lower back though).

Now here is what is specifically causing your pain:

The small muscles in the middle of your upper back (not very strong) are carrying the weight of your arms, either because you are sitting too far from the piano, or because you are hunching your shoulders (rolling them forward). Or both.

Solutions to try:

1.      Sit with your back straight and upright. Now roll your shoulders back and let your arms hang from the arm socket. This is very natural and does not strain any muscle. If you now let your shoulders drop forward, so that your arms are no more hanging from the shoulder socket, you will feel what I am talking about, and how the upper back muscles have to strain to support the arms. Roll you shoulders back again, and without moving on the shoulder area, lift your forearms using the biceps (the muscle at the front of the upper arm). The feeling is that of a string puppet, with strings tied to the wrists. This should bring your hands to the level of the keys. Now in order to bring your hands to the keys, you must combine two movements: move the elbows forward and lean from the hips – keeping the back straight – but no longer upright, since you are leaning forward. Depending on your distance to the piano, these movements should be relatively small. In fact the leaning should be so small that your arms should still be hanging from the shoulder sockets. Adjust the distance to the piano by reference to the distance of the elbows from your body. The elbows should be no more than a fist away from your body. But no less than clear from the body, so that if you had to move the arms in front of you, the elbows would just be clear from the body. The whole idea is to use the lower body (leaning from the hips, moving the elbows forward) to get to the piano, rather than the shoulder (I know, I know what about all those instructions to play with the shoulder? It is still possible, but not by letting the arms be supported by the back – you will have to experiment and learn how to do it, or get someone knowledgeable about all this to show you).

I hope this is not too obscure. It is easy to demonstrate, difficult to write about it, and even more difficult to figure out what to do from what someone wrote.

2.      If in pain during practice, stop, lie on the bench belly up. Position yourself on the bench so that the painful bit is right at the edge of the bench. Bring your arms above your head (do this near a wall, so your hands can support the weight of your body on the wall) and do a nice back stretch. Roll back and forth massaging the painful spot on the bench. You should feel no pain when stretching (my moto: no pain, no pain! ), just a nice elongation of the muscles. This should alleviate the pain immediately and buy you another 15 – 20 minutes of practice. But you still will have to sort it out since this is only temporary relief.
3.      Investigate this pain. Observe it. Move around, see what makes it better, what makes it worse. Use one of these chairs that you partly kneel down on them and force you to keep your back straight (they have a big drawback, though, you will not be able to use the pedals – but they are all right for practice you do not use the pedal).
4.      Alexander technique and sit ups are good, but there is other stuff as well. Yoga works miracles. Have you ever heard of the Feldenkrais method? Pianist Alan Fraser wrote a very interesting book applying Feldenkrais to piano playing. (The craft of playing the piano). Check out his website:

https://alanfraser.faithweb.com/title.htm

5. Get the video “Freeing the caged Bird” by pianist Barbara Lister-Sink, which shows how to apply Alexander to piano playing.

And let us not forget Tai Chi, which is excellent for posture.

Finally this may also be due simply to stress and tension.

I hope this helps. (And yes, I have been there too!)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[steveolongfingers]

get some muscles, sit up straight, and dont wear back backs, if you are a student at a school, they kill your back if they wiegh a tonne

[Pno-rules]

Hi.
This is my 1st time on this site but I couldn' help myself to join in the conversation because of my own suffering through severe back pain as a pianist for years. I have gone through many physicians and they have no solution except lots physical therapy surgary and medicine,which still would not warranty me. Now I have found this wonderful Chiropractor which many people including mysef very skeptic but has changed and saved my back dramatically. His solution beside gentle adjustment was Diet,Excersise,and correction of body habit. I do recommand you to seek a professional help ASAP because pain has real strong affect also emotionaly and you dont want that. The other thing I learned to do is walk alot and get some fresh air to my musscle which helps blood to circulate throughout my body and overall will change my mood and even attitude toward practicing and playing. We human are not made to sit in 1 position for too long so start telling yourself to get busy and move and hopefuly power of mind will take over and miracle will take place!
Best of luck!
MG

[pianomaestro88]

I might also recommend Alexander Technique, yet it is quite expensive, but for something so possibly detrimental it could be worth it. Nonetheless, I would recommend doing stretches (before you start your practice) of your wrists, back, and neck. Also, you might want to pay attention to your bench; could it be causing you to contort yourself? Pay very close attention to everything you do with your body. As a pianist, your body has a lot to do with your sound and correcting this problem could do excellent things for your playing, that is if your posture is improper.  

[sharky]

How long do you play consecutively?

[sharky]

I've heard that you shouldn't study many hours one by one. I've the same problem sometimes that I've pain in my back. My teacher said that you have to put in a break after one hour or something. So then your back gets some rest. It really helps with me.

[Greg_Fodrea]

Strengthening your core muscles (with pilates or sit-ups or whatever) will help, but posture at the piano is a critical element.  

The most important thing in my (never-to-be-humble) opinion is to keep the weight off of your tailbone.  This means sitting on the forward half of the bench (almost on the edge), and rocking forward until you feel the tailbone lift.  

You should have about 4 to 6 inches of your knees under the ledge of your piano keyboard (no more, no less), and it helps to keep your left foot back slightly to support your weight.  Then, relax!  Don't let the shoulders or lower back bunch up.  I stretch for 5 minutes before I sit down to practice, and that helps a lot!