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Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
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Topic: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
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ingagroznaya
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
on: April 05, 2006, 05:39:49 AM
Hello. I am ready to buy Yamaha A1 for 5,000 ( 6 years old ). I liked it, but the keys are so stiff.
My technician said he can make the action lighter for $300-400. Can anyone confirm that such adjustment is possible and what would be the typical price to regulate the action. At this point I am having troubles jumping from one chord to another fast.
This is the only Yamaha A1 I played. I've tried many other models and they felt wonderful. Why such a stiff action? Can it be easily adjusted? Please, help!
( I am buying the instrument mostly for the recital for my beginner to intermediate students. I would love to enjoy playing it too. )
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mic2005
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 29
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #1 on: April 05, 2006, 07:08:40 AM
I guess is when wood and felt takes on moisture it swell contributes to sluggishness. And, also moving parts are not working as it should be thus making it even harder to play. By regulating the action it usually solve the problem.
As the fee, I guess it varies as it depends to how many hours needed to put the action together. My advice should you decide to get the Yamaha A1, please make sure everything is done perfectly then try it again to see if you really like it before you issue a check. IMO, it should be the seller who beared the cost not the buyer. Regards.
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mic2005
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 29
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #2 on: April 05, 2006, 07:12:49 AM
I was told that Yamaha A1 is the worst of the yamaha piano. I am sure you notice that since you said you played the other models (C or S??) and felt wonderful.
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ingagroznaya
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #3 on: April 05, 2006, 10:09:27 PM
Mic2005,
thank you so much for your response. The piano is 6 years old, but has never been played after it was delivered new from a store. Could it be a part of the problem? Unfortunately seller is not willing to pay for adjustments, as it does not make any sense to them. They owned it as a furniture for 6 years and I, on the other hand, can not afford model C at the moment ( as much as I'd like to ). With time, I hope to be able to upgrade to C.
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cy_shuster
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Posts: 52
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 12:04:58 AM
It's impossible to diagnose a problem like this without seeing the piano. If you don't trust your technician, find another one.
Action adjustment isn't easy; there's not a dial that you turn. Each key has more than 20 points of adjustment that can be made.
Part of the feel of the action comes from the design of the piano itself. If this one feels heavier than other model A's you've played, then it may just be due to the fact that it's new, and the felt between moving parts hasn't settled in yet (as you said).
--Cy--
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ingagroznaya
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 04:40:16 AM
cy_shuster, I do appreciate your response as well. My problem is
1. My technician made the diagnoses over the phone. He just trust the name. He never actually seen the piano ( it is too far for him to drive ).
2. I have not played another Yamaha A1. I played a lot of Yamahas , but never A1 in the past.
I'm thinking of hiring someone who once tune this piano to go with me and comment on it shape. Tuning the piano once does not create a conflict of interest, or is it?
Do you think the technician would be able to say if any adjustment could be made easily on the spot or it is a process of elimination ( one possible cause at a time)?
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mic2005
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 29
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 05:34:27 AM
Like CY said it is impossible to diagnose a piano without seeing it. No doubt, Yamaha is a wonderful piano. A good name does not mean it cannot be in a worst condition. Get a technician who is willing to drive there and see the actual piano. An experience technician will be able to check the piano and let you know what to repair/service. You have played a lot of other Yamahas. The A1 will never be like those you have played (C or S). Try the A1 again after it is tune and regulated. See if you like it or not before buying it. Yamaha produces few lines of grands, from the worst to the best. It is sad that the seller is not willing to pay for the works (not unless the seller is selling way below the market value). If I am a keen seller I will make sure that the piano is in good condition before I advertise.
Regards.
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pianistimo
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Posts: 12142
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 09:04:32 AM
the heavy key action may be a blessing later in keeping the piano in good working condition for a much longer time. i'd just simply play it a lot and maybe work some scales on either end to keep those keys balanced too. it's 'breaking it in.'
my kawai was just like that when i bought it and has stayed evenly in tune after each tuning for many years. it plays fine now, but the first year or so was fairly stiff. i wouldn't do anything to your piano, if i were you.
of course, there's a certain frustration to the first few times students play on it. they'll complain, etc. but, the longevity of playing of your piano will be worth it.
some pianists may disagree over carpel tunnels and other factors. but, if you play in a relaxed manner even with a stiffer action (you'll build a little muscle) you can play on any piano after that. just make sure your students get a chance to practice on it a lot (which will help break it in).
you could test the piano yourself with some weights couldn't you? and see after a few months what the difference is and if you really want to spend the money loosening it up if you can do it yourself more evenly (by practicing on it) and not lose that 'just bought' edge. especially if you feel it is evenly regulated right now (albeit stiffer than you want).
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cloches_de_geneve
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 439
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 11:27:58 AM
Keep in mind that "light" or "heavy" are vague, subjective terms. There is an easy metric against which you can objectively judge whether or not a given action is heavy. It is generally agreed today that the weight necessary to make a key go down should be in the range of 52 to 54 grams (to convert to ounces just multiply by .035, that is, approx. 1.82 ounces). Most concert grands are regulated like that. Your technician can easily change your action to match this common standard by a fine-grained application of lead. The cost of re-regulation should not exceed 500 $.
Hope this helps.
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"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould
cy_shuster
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 52
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #9 on: April 08, 2006, 01:14:06 PM
You can certainly adjust the touchweight by changing the key leads, but this may have other effects in the "feel" of the action. Extra lead can make an action feel heavier because of inertia (dynamic touchweight vs. static).
Again, I can only speculate as I'm sitting miles away from the piano. If you trust your technician, go ahead and buy it: he or she probably has the best answers for you. But generally it's a bad strategy to play a piano that you don't like, based on a promise that it can be adjusted later.
--Cy--
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ingagroznaya
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 388
Re: Please, help! Heavy keys problem.
Reply #10 on: April 16, 2006, 11:52:56 AM
Many many thanks to all of you!
I did not like the feel of it. CY was so right...I was hesitant, so I went out to check some other pianos in the store, as my technician suggested. Played some Petroff and Shimmel ( I think it's Shimmel? Unfortunately they had no Yamahas to compare ) and started to question my sanity - I did not like them either! And there was IT - 5'8 Baldwin. Butterflies in my belly...You know how it is?
I'm sure any instrument could be adjusted to a point. Sort of like pre-arranged marriage - if both parties work hard enough it's workable solution for some. And then there is
Love At First Sight
. Uh, I can still feel the keys. Heavenly stuff, I tell ya...
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