contraversial statement by Cziffra, what do you think?

[stevie]

Cziffra played the 4
Impromptus and two of the Chopin-Liszt songs. The
Impromptus were played with a finesse and colour
reminiscent of the great Lhevinne. I was entranced. Such
pianistic polish and control was quite masterful. Imagine
my disappointment then when, at the end of the
Fantasie-Imprompta he unreservedly threw a low C sharp
into the equation, somehow enjoying the perversity of
ending this final Impromptu not in tranquility but with an
absurd ‘sf’.

Cziffra's reply -

'Remember I am Georges Cziffra: I can and I will do
this if I so desire’.

[superstition2]

I have a CD of Cziffra playing Liszt. I don't like it at all.

[maxy]

'Remember I am Georges Cziffra: I can and I will do
this if I so desire’.

Cziffra was the man

[lisztisforkids]

Who the hell has any right to tell anybody (especially Cziffra) that a C# is to loud?


Critics...  Sheesh...

I probaly would have said something like " And you can take that C# and shove it up your @$$"

[rc]

I'm not Georges Cziffra, and if I desire I can and will do that. Hell, I'll completely butcher the whole thing if I want .

My first thought was it might've been some kind of joke, but that statement seem like he might be a little high on himself.

*shrugs*

[steve jones]

Cziffra was the man

Mate, Cziffra WAS the man!!!

And if he says he can do, thats good enough for me.

SJ

[superstition2]

Maybe I have the wrong recording, because I don't see what is so special about his playing, other than it being fast, harsh, and grating. Can anyone recommend a particular recording that shows him at his best?

[stevie]

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9145958126932794540&q=cziffra&pl=true

best video ever, nuff said.

[nicco]

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9145958126932794540&q=cziffra&pl=true

best video ever, nuff said.

jesus. i wonder what he was warming up for

[gruffalo]

he did go through a lot in his life, eg fighting for the army and being a POW. so i guess he feels rebelious because he spent a period of his life being told what to do by a load of Nazis.

[Barbosa-piano]

       I think he said this in an artistic manner, in which music is not perfect, and improvisation comes into play. He is right, he can do it, being a distinguished performer and artist this would not make a difference for him- even though it is probably not right when relating to a performance that sticks to a more Chopinesque musical view. I wonder what his cadenza in Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodie No.2 sounds like.

 

he did go through a lot in his life, eg fighting for the army and being a POW. so i guess he feels rebelious because he spent a period of his life being told what to do by a load of Nazis.

Yes, I also heard that his son suffered a tragic death, which really affected Cziffra and his concerts.

He is a great pianist.

M.B.

[practicingnow]

Not cool
I'm not saying that making certain textual changes or making your own little "improvements" isn't ok.  That can be interesting and fun to hear.  It's just that picking the right spots to do so is pretty important.  Especially in Chopin, moreso than Mozart, or Schubert, Liszt...
And what you are describing here sounds pretty distasteful and ill-informed.  A sf at the end of the Fantasie-Impromptu has nothing to do with the piece at all.
With Chopin, like with Beethoven, generally speaking, I don't think that one should change or add anything.  It seems that their music, well,  just doesn't take well to improvements, if you know what I mean.
And if you must do so, then you should have a better reason than "I am - - - , and I can do what I want".
Cziffra was very often a bully with what he played, he kind of bullied the music around to suit his own technique and abilities, as he said, simply because he was Cziffra.
He was great anyway, but very often misguided by lapses in taste, I believe.

[m1469]

'Remember I am Georges Cziffra: I can and I will do
this if I so desire’.

Well... he he.. who/what stopped him ?  Nothing/No one  .  So, what he said is exactly true, be it cool or not.  And, when it comes to art, I find that statement something worth leaning on, every individual for himself.


m1469

[rc]

Not cool

And if you must do so, then you should have a better reason than "I am - - - , and I can do what I want".
Cziffra was very often a bully with what he played, he kind of bullied the music around to suit his own technique and abilities, as he said, simply because he was Cziffra.
He was great anyway, but very often misguided by lapses in taste, I believe.

That's what I'm thinking, it's disrespectful.

[maxy]

'Remember I am Georges Cziffra: I can and I will do
this if I so desire’.

hum...  did he really say that? 

stevie is not the most reliable source...

[ted]

I'm with m1469, but not just for famous people. Anybody is at liberty to do anything at all in music. There are no "ought tos" or "shoulds" about it. If it really did occur, he was obviously having a bit of fun winding people up about this obvious fact.

[stevie]

'Remember I am Georges Cziffra: I can and I will do
this if I so desire’.

hum...  did he really say that? 

stevie is not the most reliable source...

yes, its in a random pdf i got

[Mozartian]

Cziffra is awesome. Totally knew how to handle critics. 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Cziffra on critics:

"Personally, with very few exceptions, I've never come across a critic able to do other than condemn, as a means of showing off his piranha-like erudition - unless the prey is too big for him, in which case he is quick to acclaim the victor: These carrion beetles of the mind, and they are legion, are easily recognized by their boundless pride and pathetic intellect."

In fairness, the next few sentences were a bit more conciliatory..

[tompilk]

i have to say that Cziffras musicality is questionable, although his technique is as sound as I have ever known - possibly will be the most secure technique - he made even the hardest pieces sound easy, and then he improvised on them and made many transcriptions... he is surely one of the greatest pianists of all time...
TOm
ok i scanned some clips of music i got... what do you think?

[stevie]

i have to say that Cziffras musicality is questionable

??

[tompilk]

??

ok, i did put that in an unusual way, of course is musicality isn't questionable but what I was trying to say was that some of the things he plays seems not to go far to put in that little extra emotion that Im sure he could have done... like Horowitz.
On the other hand, his TE 10 is the most emotional AND technical performance i have ever seen or wish to see!
Tom

[stevie]

mildly what?

cziffra and horowitz are 2 of the most emotional and passionate piansits there have ever been, you mean slow and unexciting =  emotional?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I would have said not that Cziffra under-emoted in his playing, but that if anything he OVER-played the emotional aspects at times.

[tompilk]

mildly what?

cziffra and horowitz are 2 of the most emotional and passionate piansits there have ever been, you mean slow and unexciting =  emotional?

i give up... its too dificult to say what i think...
Tom

[m]

cziffra and horowitz are 2 of the most emotional and passionate piansits there have ever been

I wouldn't go that far... at least without defining what emotional and passionate are.
Emotional, as well as passionate have many layers. Both, lyrical and energetic for example, could be perceived as emotional.
On the other hand, how it is possible to say who is more passionate Cziffra or Gould, Richter or Horowitz, or young Gavrilov for that matter?

[etudes]

listen one of his bootleg Feux Follets with FFF Bb at the end

[ahmedito]

Have you heard the Funerailles recording which starts with octaves instead of ninths in the bass? It sounds terrible in my opinion, but Czifra is the man, who am I to question his taste?

[stevie]

I wouldn't go that far... at least without defining what emotional and passionate are.
Emotional, as well as passionate have many layers. Both, lyrical and energetic for example, could be perceived as emotional.
On the other hand, how it is possible to say who is more passionate Cziffra or Gould, Richter or Horowitz, or young Gavrilov for that matter?

true, but this is just the impression i get, the pianists i have more of an emotional response to

just as i would say i feel that rach is more emotional than bach