4th finger dependent

[rachmanny]

my teacher, whom i`ve been taking class with the past month told me that my 4th finger(right hand) is dependent, and its true. it is very dificult for to lift it independently making it difficult to play peices the way i want to play them. It also could be that i only have a year with my wooden piano. i tried the first book of hanon vituoso but i didn't do much,  what technical exercises should i do to get rid of this problem? i really want fast trills between the 4th and 5th fingers but i can`t achieve it,

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Schmitt's Finger independance excercises, Czerny. Also it is very important to train the finger independance yourself, such as play a 5 note chord completely relaxed and train each finger. Again Schmitt comes very helpfull.

Hope this helps.

[bernhard]

This is a complete non-problem.

Get your (and your teacher´s) anatomy right first: The fourth finger cannot be independent (as far as lifting it goes) because it shares a tendon with the third finger. No amount of exercise can overcome that.

Besides if this was problem, no one would be able to play the piano.

The solution to this non-problem is fully discussed in these threads:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2502.msg21594.html#msg21594
(Independence of the 3rd and 4thfinger – it is impossible, one should work towards the illusion of independence: it is all arm work)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7887.msg79326.html#msg79326
(why the lifting of the 4th finger is a non-problem)
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16273.msg181768#msg181768
(More Hanon: demonstration of 4th finger problem)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4145.msg38568.html#msg38568
(beginner’s muscle development – anatomy of the hand forearm – true reasons for extremely slow practice)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[teresa_b]

Hi Bernhard,

I have found your links valuable a number of times.  One of the comments about a little girl student finding what looked like a crazy fingering, and instead it made the whole thing a cinch, grabbed me. 

I JUST had this same "eureka" thing happen the other day.  I am practicing the Beethoven PC 4  (We have decided to do the "Chamber Version" next spring.  It's very interesting.)  Anyway, I'm newly learning the second cadenza.  There are these ridiculous both-handed trills that go on and on in the last 15 bars, and there are plunked notes above and below them. 

I had already realized I must "cheat" and not play the trill note when I play the plunked notes, as my hands are small and I just cannot do it.  You can maintain the illusion of the trill anyway.  So I was having a terrible time with awkwardness...UNTIL I discovered I could play the LH trills with my thumb on the lower note and second finger passing OVER it!  This utilizes the natural rotation of the LH on the plunks alternating with the trilled notes. 

If any students come across something like this, try it!

All the best,
Teresa

[rachmanny]

i must say ive fully grasped the idea of the links posted by benhard, seems that arm  rotation and comfortable fingering  (not impossible fingering) is key to give an independence illusion,     also ive experimented a sort of conection between the 4th and 5th fingers, when i play the  fourth finger it drags the 5th finger down, and they seem a little glued together, with it making it hard  for the 5th to react quickly in fast right hand passages. is this the same problem?


rachmanny