why does schumann want to scare little kids?

[ada]

I've just been sightreading through Schumann's Album for the Young for fun and a bit of practice and gave no.12, Knecht Ruprecht a burl. I'd sort of been skipping over it because I thought with a dumb title like Santa Claus it would be a bit twee.

OMG what is he trying to do? Terrify  the kiddies? I find it absolutely demonic and sinister. It would have scared the bejesus out of me if I'd come across it as a kid. What was he thinking?

Of course poor old Schumann was a bit of a maddy wasn't he? Died in an asylum?  Also started life as a journo....well there you go.

That's my thought for the day.

[ada]

ah. spooky. I just noticed this piece is the current top item in the PF wesite forum.  "the old goblin'. well that explains it.

[astroboy]

OMG i've had a photocopy of that piece Knecht Ruprecht for many many years now, I learnt it when i was heaps younger, and i've always wondered who it was by and where it came from.. and now I know!! wow lol.. but yeah, it doesn't sound much like a santa claus type of piece hey.

[gymnopedist]

knecht ruprecht isn't santa claus. He's his helper, who took the children who had misbehaved away to his home in the black forest. Alternately, he'd  beat them up, or give them coal instead of gifts...  Obviously, that's why the piece is so sinister.

[ada]

Curiouser and curiouser! In Germany they have a tradition where kids leave a shoe on the windowsill just before christmas, it think it's on December 20 (?)

If the kids have been good they find chocolate in their shoes when they wake up, and if they've been bad they get coal.

But as I recall it the midnight shoe-filler is St Niklaus, aka Santa Claus.

So who is this shadowy and sinister Knecht Ruprecht? Is he the dark side of christmas? Santa's evil id??

[Mozartian]

...lol

I LOVED that piece when I was a kid. I thought it was awesome, haha.

(of course, that was back in the day when all I wanted to play was firstly FAST and secondly LOUD )

[gymnopedist]

From Wikipedia:

In some of the Ruprecht traditions the children would be summoned to the door to perform tricks, such as a dance or singing a song to impress upon Santa and Ruprecht that they were indeed good children. Those who performed badly would be beaten soundly by Servant Ruprecht, and those who performed well were given a gift or some treats. Those who performed badly enough or had committed other misdeeds throughout the year were put into Ruprecht's sack and taken away, variously to Ruprecht’s home in the Black Forest, or to be tossed into a river. In other versions the children must be asleep, and would either awake to find their shoes filled with sweets, coal, or in some cases a stick. Over time, other customs developed: parents giving kids who misbehaved a stick instead of treats and saying that it was a warning from Nikolaus that "unless you improve by Christmas day, Nikolaus' black servant Ruprecht will come and beat you with the stick and you won't get any Christmas gifts." Often there would be variations idiosyncratic to individual families.

[allthumbs]

I've just been sightreading through Schumann's Album for the Young for fun and a bit of practice and gave no.12, Knecht Ruprecht a burl.

OK, you got me, what's a 'burl'. Is it like a 'henway'?

[hodi]

this santa claus piece i learnt it like 4.5 years ago and i really liked it
actually it was the first or second (don't really remember) piece that i learnt with my teacher.. i truly loved it
and schumann music has a lot of scary elements
especially in kreisleriana.. movement 3.. grrrr..

[instromp]

Iv'e had knecht Ruprecht for about 4months now and everytime i play it, I think about the Movie Jaws,like he's about to attack.I do get the feeling was Schumann trynna scare kids with deep darkness of the piece,lol. But in the middle of the piece it lightens up a bit and sounds "jolly" more to say,lol.

[Barbosa-piano]

  Yes, just like Tchaikovsky and Mussorgsky composed Baba Yaga; Based on a folk terror!

[ada]

OK, you got me, what's a 'burl'. Is it like a 'henway'?

To 'give it a burl' is Australian slang meaning to give it a shot, give it a try, have a go. 

Apparently from the Scottish "burl" meaning a twirl, a spin.

okay what's "a henway"?

[Tash]

is that aussie slang? wow i don't think i've ever heard anyone say that...

anyway the chances that some schumann piece is going to scare kids is unlikely since most of them are off watching law and order and god knows what else, playing playstation games that involve shooting and stabbing other people etc...

[Graf Zahl]

Curiouser and curiouser! In Germany they have a tradition where kids leave a shoe on the windowsill just before christmas, it think it's on December 20 (?)

If the kids have been good they find chocolate in their shoes when they wake up, and if they've been bad they get coal.

Sorry, I fear you are wrong. This day is called "Nikolaus" and is on December the 6th. Children need to write or paint pictures of what they want do get on Christmas-eve. This is called the “Wunschzettel”. If the kid was a good kid during the last year (and the shoes are cleaned!) it receives sweets (well, this was during my time, today they are getting cell-phones or ringtones ), if it was a bad kid it gets a rod.

Back to topic. I love the Knecht-Ruprecht by Schumann. It was indeed the top-reason for me to start playing the piano (at the age of 5), since my mother used to play it for me, telling me the story of that piece. And yes, it is scary, because Knecht Ruprecht is not only supposed to bring gifts, but also to judge the behavior of the children.
The first theme is about Knecht Ruprecht climbing the stairs towards the childrens home. This is supposed to be scary! The 2nd, more lovely theme represents the Christmas-atmosphere when he enters the living-room and the welcomes of the children. When the music turns dark, with this earnest voice in the base he is asking the children whether they were good kids during the last year. They tell him that they were, and receive there gifts. When the 1st theme starts again, Knecht Ruprecht climbs down the stairs again with his big, strong feet.

[ada]

is that aussie slang? wow i don't think i've ever heard anyone say that...

That's cos you're a north shore girl

And, I suspect, a wee bit younger than me

Back to topic. I love the Knecht-Ruprecht by Schumann. It was indeed the top-reason for me to start playing the piano (at the age of 5), since my mother used to play it for me, telling me the story of that piece. And yes, it is scary, because Knecht Ruprecht is not only supposed to bring gifts, but also to judge the behavior of the children.
The first theme is about Knecht Ruprecht climbing the stairs towards the childrens home. This is supposed to be scary! The 2nd, more lovely theme represents the Christmas-atmosphere when he enters the living-room and the welcomes of the children. When the music turns dark, with this earnest voice in the base he is asking the children whether they were good kids during the last year. They tell him that they were, and receive there gifts. When the 1st theme starts again, Knecht Ruprecht climbs down the stairs again with his big, strong feet.

Great interpretation. Spot on. But I still reckon a dark edge creeps into the "happy" second part now and then.

[Graf Zahl]

Great interpretation. Spot on. But I still reckon a dark edge creeps into the "happy" second part now and then.

Of course I don't know for sure, but from my point of view this piece is written from the perspective of the children who, despite of the happiness of the day, are always very very nervous.

Well, why that much of a story? Just for the parents being able to tell their children they'll get a rod on Christmas when they are not behaving good (a method that only works for 3 or 4 weeks a year).
I remember when I got a rod on that special evening. Oh no, it's Sunday, I can't visit my psychologist.

[clef]

I dont think he scares them on purpose, I think he just can't help it. 

[Tash]

That's cos you're a north shore girl

how do you know that?!

[ada]

how do you know that?!

educated guess


No, seriously, you mentioned something in a post somewhere that gave it away. I noticed it cos I live in Sydney too. (other side of the bridge tho)

[Tash]

haha i probably mentioned being a private school snob, cos i am hahaha.but i might as well live at uni anyway

[allthumbs]

To 'give it a burl' is Australian slang meaning to give it a shot, give it a try, have a go. 

Apparently from the Scottish "burl" meaning a twirl, a spin.

okay what's "a henway"?

About 5 pounds!

[alwaystheangel]

This is fascinating.  I don't own much in the way of Schumann, any one have a copy that their willing to take the time to post?

[steve_m]

5

[alwaystheangel]

thank you steve_m!~

[instromp]

I have the same one op.68 no.12...its a pretty cool piece! ,1st piece of Schumann i ever learned.

[alwaystheangel]

I played it,  nice and easy, and really fun to play.  I'd have been scared to hear it as a kid.  Almost as scary as Moonlight Sonata was to me.