Descending A minor scale (harmonic)(RH)....

[casparma]

This is what I find when I am practicing A minor harmonic scale (a, g#, f, e, d, c, b, a) at fast speed, descending, on RH.

My middle finger so often hit the f# black key, when I am to play the f white key after g# as I play the A minor harmonic scale descending at fast speed with RH.


Does any one have any suggestion to avoid the clash to the black key with middle finger?


thanks

[abell88]

There's no law that you have to use "standard" fingering...try 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 3. This will put the stretch between 2 and 1, rather than 4 and 3...also your thumb is very unlikely to end up on F#, because it's shorter.

[casparma]

thanks for the tip, abell..

but 2 more questions:

1) if I use the fingering (RH) suggested for asending insteading descending, the first finger to start is the 4th (next to the pinky), but this starting position is difficult for me (I cannot play fast from starting like this). IS there any help here?

2) is there also an alternative for left hand? with standard fingering, I always have to move my finger forth and back in order to 1stly reach the black key with 2nd(index) finger and then back in order to play on the rest of the white keys.


appreciate
 for more help

[quantum]

Have you tried practicing in clusters?   It's like playing the scale in groups of notes. 

Use standard fingering for scale.  Start with thumb, then cluster of all fingers up to the next thumb, thumb, cluster, thumb, cluster, etc. 

So it would be 1, 23, 1, 234, 1, 23, 1, 234, 5, 234, 1, 23, 1, 234, 1, 23, 1

It will help you learn the spacings inbetween the fingers. 

[casparma]

thanks for your reply, quantum...

But, I dont quite get what mean by playing in cluster...

Do you mean hit all the notes in the cluster simultaneously?

Secondly, What do you mean cluster of all fingers up to the "next thumb"?


thanks

[abell88]

1) if I use the fingering (RH) suggested for asending insteading descending, the first finger to start is the 4th (next to the pinky), but this starting position is difficult for me (I cannot play fast from starting like this). IS there any help here?

Actually, you start with 3, then 1, as follows: 3 1 2 3 4 1 2 3.

is there also an alternative for left hand? with standard fingering, I always have to move my finger forth and back in order to 1stly reach the black key with 2nd(index) finger and then back in order to play on the rest of the white keys.

When you say you must move your finger back and forth, do you mean towards and away from the fallboard? Unless your fingers are very fat, you should be able to have your whole hand in among the black keys. You might need to have your hand a little higher to do this.

But for an alternative LH fingering, I will probably be shot by the Orthodox Fingering Fairy, but you could try (descending) 1 2 4 1 2 3 4 5.  Same thing in reverse for ascending.

[nyquist]

This is what I find when I am practicing A minor harmonic scale (a, g#, f, e, d, c, b, a) at fast speed, descending, on RH.

My middle finger so often hit the f# black key, when I am to play the f white key after g# as I play the A minor harmonic scale descending at fast speed with RH.


Does any one have any suggestion to avoid the clash to the black key with middle finger?


thanks

When 4 plays G#, 3 is right over F#.  So tripping over F# is understandable.  What I suggest you try to reach F is a combination of things:

• First, while 4 is on G#, make a tiny rotation to the right to lift 3.
• Second,  move the whole hand/forearm a smidgen out (away from the fall board, the point of your elbow should move back).  3 should clear F#.
• Third, (up to this point 4 should be on G#) finally, play F by rotating to the left and dropping the hand a tiny amount, the rotation lifts 4 from G#.

 

In-and-out movements are used to avoid twisting your wrist

nyquist
Yes, I know I have OCD

[quantum]

thanks for your reply, quantum...

But, I dont quite get what mean by playing in cluster...

Do you mean hit all the notes in the cluster simultaneously?

Yes, when I say cluster I mean play all those fingers together like one chord. 

Secondly, What do you mean cluster of all fingers up to the "next thumb"?

With standard fingering you start with thumb, the use some fingers, then thumb, fingers, thumb, fingers, etc. 

Your thumb moves differently from the rest of your fingers, so what I am trying to do is group your digits into similar moving entities.  Eg: You play thumb, then next you play a cluster of fingers as a chord because they have similar movements.

So all in all play in groups of notes: the thumb, followed by fingers, followed by thumb, etc.  all using the standard scale fingering. 

For the top note of the scale (before turning around to go down again) you may play your 5th finger seperately. 

I hope this is clearer.

[casparma]

thanks for all the helps. Really. I think I now have enough idea and solutions to play A minor scale RH.

But for the LH, with standard fingering, abell suggests to put the whole hand among the black key region, but isn't it more difficult to play, especially forte passage? Any way, I dont know, because I haven't tried, but I will indeed try to practice in this way to see if it's easier. It's just that, intuitively, you need more "torque" to play the keys when your fingers are tending towards the fallboard.


thanks again