I'm a teacher now (help!)

[verywellmister]

I have settled on using the Piano Adventures method books for my students, based on experience.

The question is, when should I start assigning things out of the book(s)?  Maybe some Grieg Lyric Pieces or Burgmuller op.100.  What i mean by this is after what point that they reach should I begin doing this?

Thank you.

[juliax]

You just have to go with your instincts on this.  If you feel your student is struggling, then give them easier pieces along with the more difficult ones.  As long as your students are happy and learning, that's really all that matters.

[emmdoubleew]

As soon as possible.

Piano Adventures, imo, should be used as "quick" pieces. Their levels definetly do not reflect what the student's level should be. Granted, if you are starting with really young kids you can stay in Piano Adventures, but 10 and up need to get real, although simple, repertoire imo.

[bernhard]

emmdoubleew is right: From the very first lesson give worthwhile repertory. It does exist. There is really no reason (except the teacher´s convenience = laziness) to go through method books and their appalling little pedagogical pieces.

Here are some suggestions:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2147.msg18098.html#msg18098
(Easiest piano piece ever written)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2428.msg20981.html#msg20981
(four hand repertory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2562.msg22127.html#msg22127
(Suggestions for repertory for someone who has been playing for a year)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4140.msg38111.html#msg38111
(True repertory for total beginners)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5063.msg49589.html#msg49589
(Albums for the young)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7008.msg80656.html#msg80656
(Beautiful music that is not hard to play)

You might also find these threads of interest:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg18542.html#msg18542
(methods for very young students – Candida Tobin´s website)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2032.msg19339.html#msg19339
(How to become a piano teacher – good advice from minsmusic – the pitfalls as well as the requirements)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2450.msg21250.html#msg21250
(the four levels of teaching: Toddler, beginner, intermediate and advanced)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2500.msg21577.html#msg21577
(Teaching adults)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg21823.html#msg21823
(How to teach very young students – the historical method, the pragmatical  x logical method and total exposure as the best way for under-5s)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2906.msg25591.html#msg25591
(How to organise a lesson syllabus – analogy with cooking)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2970.msg25991.html#msg25991
(Areas of study for a complete music syllabus – books for each area)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2979.msg26080.html#msg26080
(Methods)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4020.msg36635.html#msg36635
(What to teach a 4-year old in his first lesson)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4405.msg40979.html#msg40979
(method books)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[juliax]

emmdoubleew is right: From the very first lesson give worthwhile repertory. It does exist. There is really no reason (except the teacher´s convenience = laziness) to go through method books and their appalling little pedagogical pieces.

Right.. because a sense of accomplishment for finishing the different levels of method books is just down right silly, right?  I really hope you don't believe that.  If you do, you obviously haven't used the right method books.  A student should be able to teach themselves, and go ahead if they want.  How do you suggest they do this without an instructer if they don't have a method book?  That's like saying "Only lazy Calculus teachers us Calculus books."  Can I assume you are new to teaching?

[dorfmouse]

Can I assume you are new to teaching?

I wouldn't, if I were you!! 

(Hint: view profile of this member, view last posts of this member ...! )

[bernhard]

Right.. because a sense of accomplishment for finishing the different levels of method books is just down right silly, right?

Er… yes. 

Such a sense of accomplishment (when it genuinely exists) is mostly fostered by the teacher who believes/uses methods. Everyone else is grating their teeth and pretending to be amazed at the little Mozart´s progress, again mostly for the benefit of the teacher.

A real sense of achievement will accrue when the student sits down at the piano and plays for friends and family – or perhaps at a party or at a school assembly – a piece of real music – that if chosen carefully will sound more difficult and advanced than it actually is. Typically everyone will gasp. With my students – who are usually at this stage after two / three months of lessons – the audience astonishment is even bigger once they reveal for how long they have been learning the piano. In my early days as a teacher I got most of my students like that: one of my students would play – after two three months - repertory that his friend who had been on the care of a method oriented teacher would find difficult to tackle after four or five years of lessons.

Recently I have moved countries. I was sad to loose a number of students which I referred to other teachers. There was no need for grief. Soon the parents were in touch, appalled at the mediocrity of the “pieces” their children were being forced to learn – all from some method book or other. They were very surprised that not everyone taught like me: by letting the children choose the piece the children loved (within their ability, of course). The children revolted wildly and did not want to have anything to do with piano lessons. So we found a way where I could continue teaching them accross continents to everyone´s merriment.

So, yes. Whatever sense of accomplishment one may get from progressing from silly pedagogical monstrosity to the next , or from getting gold stars, pales to insignificance once one tastes the real thing, the real accomplishment of playing a true piece of music.

  I really hope you don't believe that.  If you do, you obviously haven't used the right method books.  A student should be able to teach themselves, and go ahead if they want.  How do you suggest they do this without an instructor if they don't have a method book? 

Why should you have such hopes about what I believe or not? Beliefs are unimportant. Concentrate on the real thing. As for using the right method books, I would not know, since I have never used any, nor felt the need (do not now jump to the conclusion that I do not know about them just because I do not use them – see the list of threads I provide at the end).

Surely a student should be able to teach oneself. The best way (although not time efficient) is exactly without an instructor. If they do not have an instructor, I assure you they will self-learn (provided the motivation is strong enough). Next best (and very time efficient) is to have an instructor who believes (as I do) that a piano teacher does not teach how to play an instrument, but rather teaches how to learn to play an instrument .

Method books will not do this job because they present no incentive for the student. Why should /she wish to play the silly piece on the next page? To have a sense of achievement? You must be joking. What spurs students on to better things are… better things! If there is a piece the student would love to play, I assure you that s/he will get home and try his/her hand at it with or without the blessing of his/her teacher. Just look at the amount of posts here asking for help in learning pieces the teacher will not allow the student to play. Cpnversely I am yet to see a single post asking how to master the next page of [insert here method of choice].

If you read my posts on student´s corner (amongst others), you will notice that I am always happy to give the map to the treasure, and I think it is appalling that their teachers are not doing the same. But then, heck, maybe they do not know this stuff, after all it is not in the method´s sequence.

That's like saying "Only lazy Calculus teachers us Calculus books."

Teacher laziness is not a prerogative of piano teachers. Maths teachers can be every bit as lazy. Besides the analogy does not really hold water. Must I really dissect it?

  Can I assume you are new to teaching?

Me, I am just a precocious 13 year old.

On a side note, assume nothing. Test everything.

And let me guess, you give your students 30 minutes a week?

Now if you are intrigued enough to investigate how I get the results I claimed in paragraphs 3 and 4 above, have a look here (reading through these threads may also reduce the amount you must assume about me ):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2260.msg19270.html#msg19270
(Dear Bernhard thread – Pieces leading up to the revolutionary)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3419.msg30083.html#msg30083
(Bernhard’s students - money questions – Judo story  - requirements to become a teacher – skills x credentials)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5624.msg54522.html#msg54522
(sensitivity towards students – maxims on students, teachers and environment)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15879.0.html
(play only what you love – difficult x challenging pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1884.msg14708.html#msg14708
(Motivating children – joining the child’s model and using other children’s accomplishments to motivate)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2047.msg16848.html#msg16848
(what to do with children crying)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2077.msg17179.html#msg17179
(How to become a teacher)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2115.msg17860.html#msg17860
(the advantages of a teacher – comparison with typing)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2125.msg17864.html#msg17864
(Age limitations – Barenboins’s there are only bad teachers philosophy)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg18542.html#msg18542
(methods for very young students – Candida website)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2246.msg19041.html#msg19041
(Young teachers – why young/bad teachers are not a problem – When the student is ready the right teacher will appear)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2260.msg19270.html#msg19270
(Dear Bernhard thread – Pieces leading up to the revolutionary)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2032.msg19339.html#msg19339
(How to become a piano teacher – good advice from minsmusic – the pitfalls as well as the requirements)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2450.msg21250.html#msg21250
(the four levels of teaching: Toddler, beginner, intermediate and advanced)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2500.msg21577.html#msg21577
(Teaching adults)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg21823.html#msg21823
(How to teach very young students – the historical method, the pragmatical  x logical method and total exposure as the best way for under-5s)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2600.msg22423.html#msg22423
(Encouragement – the impossibility of reaching goals and therefore the importance of setting goals high. Teaching by criticism: Slydini example)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2749.msg23873.html#msg23873
(self-teaching – the pitfalls. Analogy of frying an egg - principles of fingering)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2907.msg25589.html#msg25589
(how to teach chords to young children)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2906.msg25591.html#msg25591
(How to organise a lesson syllabus – analogy with cooking)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2970.msg25991.html#msg25991
(Areas of study for a complete music syllabus – books for each area)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2979.msg26080.html#msg26080
(Methods)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2994.msg26162.html#msg26162
(Teaching little brats – recorder rules)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2972.msg26178.html#msg26178
(advantages and disadvantages of teaching by rote – good for the teacher)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3014.msg26427.html#msg26427
(How to deal with bad students – using the student for experiments)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3066.msg26951.html#msg26951
(Teaching or playing – learning with the student)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3208.msg30129.html#msg30129
(strict x lax teachers – fake anger, but never feel it)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3442.msg30359.html#msg30359
(How to choose your next piece – impossible/easy pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3466.msg30666.html#msg30666
(Russian methods - what is a real teacher - definitions of communicator)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3535.msg31344.html#msg31344
(the 104 essential pieces – the magic numbers 5 and 3 – how much practice?)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3524.msg32403.html#msg32403
(adults learn faster than children)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3783.msg34200.html#msg34200
(how to teach super motivated students)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,143.msg35967.html#msg35967
(differences in learning/teaching children and adults)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3891.msg35968.html#msg35968
(Types of students. Good and bad attitudes displayed by students)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4020.msg36635.html#msg36635
(What to teach a 4-year old in his first lesson)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4205.msg38841.html#msg38841
(grades and exams)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4269.msg39706.html#msg39706
(Helping a student get rid of bad habits)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4336.msg40366.html#msg40366
(handling transfer students – the 3 most important areas in piano teaching)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4321.msg40373.html#msg40373
(why do you teach? – policies and teaching methods –pragmatical theory of memory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4405.msg40979.html#msg40979
(method books)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4417.msg41108.html#msg41108
(scolding students – students from hell, their attitudes and appropriate responses – start from the idea that student is put on your path for your benefit, not his – joining the model of the student – using their energy rather than yours – analogy to martial arts – use students form hell to learn this art – logic x psychology x philosophy – example of learning piece backwards- steve wonder is god silogism – analogy with reading)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4269.msg41284.html#msg41284
(teaching a child with bad habits – aim is not for the student to get better, but for the teacher to get better – use pieces the student love – outlining x simplification – how small hands can cope with octaves – fingering)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5569.msg53917.html#msg53917
(when are you ready to be without a teacher – roles of the teacher)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,8399.msg85048.html#msg85048
(questions to ask a prospective teacher – reasons why payment should be monthly)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[juliax]

Well, I don't know any teachers who stick strictly to their method books.  I just think it was very arrogant and insulting of you to accuse teachers who use them of lazy.  The statement about the calculus book was to show you how rediculous and ludicrous your original statement was, so by pointing that out you simply proved my point.

Good luck in your future endeavours. 

[bernhard]

I just think it was very arrogant and insulting of you ... 

It takes one to know one.

[rlefebvr]

Now now children....

Although my teaching skills and history is a short one. I have always used method books to start off a student. I simply find it is the quickest way to get them started.

There is usually a diploma at the end of the book a teacher gets to sign and the kids get a very real kick out of that. Young people love trophies.

However and I must stress this. I have never had a student finish the second book.
They are bored silly of them by that point and really, once they can read C to C in both keys there is little reason to keep at them.

Unless the student does not practise it usually takes the students an average of 6 weeks to get thru the first method book I use and by then I have already assigned one or two short easy pieces for them.

So although I understand B's point, I believe Method books can be used successfully in a very short term.

[rlefebvr]

Well, I don't know any teachers who stick strictly to their method books.  I just think it was very arrogant and insulting of you to accuse teachers who use them of lazy.  The statement about the calculus book was to show you how rediculous and ludicrous your original statement was, so by pointing that out you simply proved my point.

Good luck in your future endeavours. 

and if you think that was arrogant and insulting, you should see his temper tantrums when people speak of "he who shall not be named"

I have seen forum members get sympathy cards from other members after those threads.

 

[juliax]

and if you think that was arrogant and insulting, you should see his temper tantrums when people speak of "he who shall not be named"

I have seen forum members get sympathy cards from other members after those threads.

 

Oh yeah?  Who is this man you speak of with no name?  I am intrigued!

[rlefebvr]

Now don't go looking for trouble....


I can spell it for you


H
A
N
O
N

[sarahlein]

....The children revolted wildly and did not want to have anything to do with piano lessons. So we found a way where I could continue teaching them accross continents to everyone´s merriment.

I'm curious Bernhard,
how, exactly, does that work?