Harmonic Analysis of Bach?

[steve jones]

Does anyone know of any good analysis papers / articles for Bach (preferably his Inventions or WTC)?

Iv been studying these pieces, and Iv leaned alot about motifs and development / variation. Thing is, I find it very difficult to identify the harmonic progressions in these 2 and 3 point counterpoints.

For example in Bachs C Major Invention (2 part), measures 1-2 could be interpreted as C, G-G7. But I find it hard to plot the progression through the entire piece, and without this ability I dont feel happy with my level of understanding of the music.

Mozart is much easier, the chords are usually quite clear and its pretty easy analysis. But the Baroque stuff is a different ball game, as the linear nature of the music makes the vertical aspects pretty ambiguous!

HELP! 

Cheers all,

SJ

[prometheus]

https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/wtc/wtc.html

[bearzinthehood]

If you're interested in polyphonic music there is a nice (and cheap) book that I think you might enjoy, it's called "Counterpoint: The Polyphonic Vocal Style of the Sixteenth Century" and it's by Knud Jeppesen.

[getcool]

I have a recommendation for a great book on Bach, which I just recently also suggested in another thread here in this forum: Bach and the Patterns of Invention by Laurence Dreyfus (Harvard University Press, 1997).

I'm paging through it now, and I see a nice discussion on the C major 2-part invention (including a structural "map" with a detailed analysis), as well as countless references to the WTC in the index.  I would highly recommend this book if you are interested in learning about Bach and his compositional strategies.  However, I also have some advice that may help.

Having taken a graduate course exclusively on J.S. Bach, read the book I mentioned as well as numerous articles, and written several analytical papers on a few of his works, I can say that it really is not worth sitting down and trying to do a chord-by-chord analysis of these pieces.  You would do well, I think, to instead look for global harmonic progressions, and do a closer examination of the voice-leading going on, on both a local and global scale.

I recently was looking up the C major prelude from the WTC, Bk.1 in my local university's library, and I couldn't find a single copy of the score that some theory student hadn't marked up with a chord-by-chord "study" of the piece.  I think such an exercise misses the point; there are far more important things going on here, and the global harmonic changes, the overarching voice-leading, and the compositional structures I think are much more valuable to look at.

Again, I recommend reading Dreyfus' book; examples of all of these things are explained in detail and you will gain a new insight on Bach and his compositions.  If you have any more questions, feel free to ask; I might be able to provide further help.  Of course, I don't at all profess to have all the answers, or even some of them; I'm just interested in the material and have my own opinions on what I've studied.

[steve jones]

Thanks for the suggestions lads, appreciated. Will definately check those books!

Getcool,

The C Major Prelude is a good example with clear harmonic progress. Its the pieces like the Fugues that I find more difficult, as the linearity makes it very unclear. You get a vibe of the underlying tonality and progression, but its still difficult to identify the chords.

You're quite right, this is far from being the most exciting part of Bach's music. But its is never the less a crucial part of any analysis imo. So its something I want to look into further.

Id be Renaissance music would be even more difficult!

SJ

[RealPianist]

how about where to find the analysis about Bach Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue BWV. 903?

suggestion appreciate 

[getcool]

The C Major Prelude is a good example with clear harmonic progress. Its the pieces like the Fugues that I find more difficult, as the linearity makes it very unclear. You get a vibe of the underlying tonality and progression, but its still difficult to identify the chords.

You're right, the C Major Prelude does have a clear harmonic progression, but as you are finding out, fugues often do not.  It is exactly this lack of clarity that makes the type of analysis you are trying to do so frustrating.  Two equally smart people may come up with two different harmonic interpretations of one of these pieces.

If you really want to do this type of analysis, I do have another suggestion.  Try starting from the species counterpoint angle; try to identify passages that exemplify specific characteristics of species counterpoint, and examine the intervals that are created between the two (or more) voices.  This will give more weight to the voice-leading, and also might help you discover local harmonic motions.

I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't attempt what you're trying to do; by all means, analyze away... it is a good experience for any musician to get really in-depth with a piece he/she is looking at.  But I also don't want you to miss the more global harmonic changes/motions that are going on, because I think you would find these aspects much more interesting (I certainly do).

[steve jones]

Indeed, everything about this music is fascinating to me!

Im used to more homophonic styles, so getting my head into thinking in a linear way is proving... tricky!  I understand the fundamentals of counterpoint, ie, the voice leading rules, aesthetic choices regarding the flow of lines, the various species etc. I also understand how much of the melodic content is created through development and variation of motives.

But the progression of harmonies is stumping me. As you say, it is very difficult to pin point chords, especially in two part compositions! I usually try to identify chord notes from with in the voices and can sometime derive a chord from this. Other times the harmonic rhythm seems such that its impossible to decide on which chord is being played at all.

Thing is, I figure Bach must have had an idea of where he was interms of the progression. As one of the fathers of the tonal era, it makes sense that he had such things in mind, rather thinking completely polyphonic.

We'll see, maybe I will discover ways to get this. But I have a feeling it may not be possible, as it is with Classical (and later) works.

SJ

[steve jones]

https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/wtc/wtc.html

Btw, that site is excellent. I read a few of the articles a while back, but never made it to the Fugue analysis'. Supperb stuff.

SJ

[fencingfellow]

You're right, the C Major Prelude does have a clear harmonic progression, but as you are finding out, fugues often do not.  It is exactly this lack of clarity that makes the type of analysis you are trying to do so frustrating.  Two equally smart people may come up with two different harmonic interpretations of one of these pieces.

Well...not to say analyzing Bach is easy, because it isn't, but his works *do* still have one harmonic analysis that would be most accurate.  Reciprocal process did not come around for quite a while yet.
What makes Bach so difficult to analyze in such a way is because he use a much wider variety of harmonies than were common in his time period, and more liberal use of non-chordal tones.
If you go into it with an open mind, a thorough understanding of harmony, and patience, you should be fine.   

[mcgillcomposer]

I just want to add one small detail to the discussion.

Yes, it is important to be able to label the progressions, but it is even more important to understand the larger picture of what is happening harmonically. Then, if you really want to get into details you can look at things such as the voicing of the chords, how they are idiomatic for keyboard instruments, etc.

It is of much greater use to understand why Bach is using a certain harmonic idiom, rather than simply saying what that idiom is.

Some great book suggestions!

Best of luck!

- Andrew

[RealPianist]

how about where to find the analysis about Bach Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue BWV. 903?

Hey, any of you know and have solution about this??

[getcool]

Hey, any of you know and have solution about this??

I'm sure there have been articles published on this piece somewhere.  I'll try to remember to look it up next time I go to my university's library.

[BoliverAllmon]

bach tends to have a harmonic rhythmn. If you see that he is changing chords on the half note, it is a safe bet that he will do that for most of the piece. That tends to help me out.

boliver

[pianistimo]

this has been a great thread to read.  as an amateur analyst myself - i find myself drawn to the ideas of getcool.  for one reason - it is less laborious (yes, i'm lazy a bit) and probably more eye opening as to why the composer did what he did. 

was reading a site (have to find it again) that was talking about ornamentation and whether it was on the beat or not and also if the tone that was ornamented was a diatonic note or not.  i think i took this in by osmosis in college - but never really dwelt on it - other than for performance practice.

but, if u are analyzing non-diatonic notes - it's a quick way to see what bach is doing with his chromaticness.

for the bach chromatic fantasy and fugue  - i would start highlighting the chromatic notes and how and where they are used.  as i understand bach and mozart - they used the chromatic notes as lead-in's to the keys they were aiming at or as points of return to the main key but never to stray out of traditional harmony.  i suppose this  point could be argued with some of bach's work.  i mean - it's really out there.

my last classical teacher used the words 'points of articulation' - often found at places where there is a slight bit of rest (end of phrasing - or page) and moving to an entirely different idea.  u can often see a working out of the ideas (after the point of articulation) that came before.  u take those ideas and clip them or move them around in inversions or as was said - start playing with intervals and voicing.

with the first prelude, it seems that bach is doing minimal changes (one note per chord, almost) and achieves striking effects (as when u walk around a sculpture slowly).  then, as he progresses through the preludes and fugues - it is as if he is walking u thru not only keys, but compositional processes.  each one is different.  maybe u have to trust ur instinct and say to urself - ok, i'm going to just listen to this several times and think about what is going on.  make notes of what u personally hear.  and then analyze it chordally later.  what teachers seem to find more interesting than students who analyze chord by chord - is a grasp of what piano techniques are being used, is it (as with the C major prelude) a sort of organ piece?  as preludes often were - and supposed to have held notes that hold for the entire arpeggiated idea?  if i were playing this over again - i would hold each of the notes down until the entire arpeggio was played.  it makes it sound more like an organ.  u can hear the sustain.  the pipes.  the grand sound.  not the little piddly staccato or slight legato.  it's as if he's saying - listen to these simple sounds.  especially since he plays each chord twice.  with the large large organs - u can have a sort of echo effect (or have to wait until the sounds subside).  i wonder if bach was kind of thinking to himself (as he would when playing the organ) COUNT.  count past the natural sustain that these notes will produce.  one of them could be played loud (as the organ would play) and the other soft (as echoing in the nave).

[pianistimo]

i found an interesting blurb about temperaments (and how it would relate to the chromatic fantasy and fugue).  u have the organ with mean-temperametn (and only able to handle certain keys well withoiut sounding out of tune on others) - and then u have the clavichords and harpsichords which could be tuned to more of a temperament.

www.bach-cantatas.com/Topics/Temperament.htm

correct me if i'm wrong, but the chromatic fantasy and fugue - was it composed as a 'get away from the organ temperament' - or did he play it on the organ as well?  suppose that it might sound OK but - to get the 'real feel' for well tempered - u'd have to play in on a keyboard, right?  also, another tip-off would be to look at the speed.  the 32nd notes indicate almost too fast to play on organ, right?  is he now saying - look - u can try chromatic things better on a keyboard (even though u might miss the emotions from mean-tempered instruments). 

www.pianopedia.com/mov413_1390.aspx

u can hear it played on a pedal-harpsichord here:
www.baroquecds.com/727DanbyAhl4.mp3

a very interesting idea from busoni on piano pedalling here:
https://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Bach-Busoni/Bach-BusoniE.htm

(percy grainger suggests using the left foot for the left two pedals simultaneously as the right foot on the una chorda - and that would be how busoni's pedalling is done).

[RealPianist]

Thanks BolliverAmon
And also thanks a lot for pianistimo for helping me. I'll have a look asap.

[landesm]

Does anyone know of any good analysis papers / articles for Bach (preferably his Inventions or WTC)?

Iv been studying these pieces, and Iv leaned alot about motifs and development / variation. Thing is, I find it very difficult to identify the harmonic progressions in these 2 and 3 point counterpoints.

For example in Bachs C Major Invention (2 part), measures 1-2 could be interpreted as C, G-G7. But I find it hard to plot the progression through the entire piece, and without this ability I dont feel happy with my level of understanding of the music.

Mozart is much easier, the chords are usually quite clear and its pretty easy analysis. But the Baroque stuff is a different ball game, as the linear nature of the music makes the vertical aspects pretty ambiguous!

HELP! 

Cheers all,

SJ

Lots of interesting comments. But I think the best was at advice was Getcool's at the very start, I think.  Look "globally".  In all music, not just two part invention no 1.  music is hierarchical by nature, as is any story.  Let me be clear.  Take two part invention no 1.  The place to start is not to ask what is happening in the first two measures.  Instead, start with a brief description of the whole story.  Ulysses tries to return home after the war with Troy.  Start by trying to see the two part invention as a five chord progression, for example: CGFGC.  Take a look at it and try to see the following: the first four measures are C.  The next four are G. The rest of the piece is essentially F, save a G at the very end of the penultimate measure, resolving to the final C measure. Typical of Bach, the first four measures will be very easy to see as C, seeing the next four as G requires a slightly more subtle perspective.  Seeing the remainder as F will require a little more thought but is there to see if you look at THE BIG PICTURE. Once you see the BIG PICTURE, you can then profitably go back and study smaller details.  Minus the big picture, the details are, forgive me, simply meaningless.  You say the progression in C Major Prelude of WTC is  clear.  But again, it is essentially approximately four chords in length.  The first half is simply a C.
If that is what you meant by the progression, well and good, but if you are puzzled by the above, then Getcool's advice is the place to start. Back up and see the BIG PICTURE.

[cudo]

Iv been studying these pieces, and Iv leaned alot about motifs and development / variation. Thing is, I find it very difficult to identify the harmonic progressions in these 2 and 3 point counterpoints.

Maybe itīs also a good idea to come down to the original purpose Bach wrote these Inventions - improvisation!

I discovered a lot of harmonic details when siting down and playing them very slowly, doing a lot of own adornments, binding over commun tones, adding harmony notes and other stuff.

To get an idea what am I talking about you could listen to it here -->

[pianosolution]

The best way to "analyse" Bach is to listen to it. Assimilate Bach's style by listening to pieces until they are really familiar to you. Try to realise what makes it sound like Bach as opposed to anyone else (Handel, Scarlatti, etc) As a pianist it is interesting to listen to the wide range of ways in which Bach is played and perceived harmonically.