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Topic: With closed eyes...  (Read 2356 times)

Offline bennom

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With closed eyes...
on: April 15, 2006, 11:56:12 PM
One week to concert. Everything is in place, you started practice the pieces well in time (miraculously). But you can't just quit practicing the last week, can you! ::)

In this luxuary situation, I find myself sitting, while practicing, thinking about anything but music. My thoughts are wandering, because my impatient mind don't want to be bored.  ;)

So today I remembered a thing that I used to do many years ago; play with my eyes closed. It was remarkable how this simple change of circumstance enhanced my practice.
I listened with much greater care, and technically, it gave me a very detailed experience of what in my playing that was relaxed and what was not enough relaxed.

There must be more simple methods like that!!!!

I'm not a fan of "tests" like "playing without warming up" or "playing while whistling another tune" or "playing while talking to your mother-in-law" or such: I think tests like that is counter-effective.

No, I like to find out more methods to increase focus, especially when you're starting to get bored with the music, but you still have to work with it.

Some are obvious, like:
*play with one hand only (from memory)
*play in extreme tempos
*take new voices to the fore
*no pedal
*flip the nuances and expressions (forte=piano, dolce=brutale and so on)
*playing backwards (in sections of course!)
*play with closed eyes (in mozart and bach and similar, otherwise it's to much jumps to be of any use)

...more??

Offline cjp_piano

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #1 on: April 16, 2006, 12:49:10 AM
Some others that I heard at a recent workshop about right brain/left brain interaction and music:

Practice with your hands crossed: you still play each part with the correct hand, but cross your hands so RH is on the left and LH is on the right.  This won't work for pieces with a wide range, but certainly for something like Bach.  Not only will you hear it completely different of course, but your brain creates new pathways between right and left brain.

Practice with a patch over one eye.  Then do the same covering the other eye.  The eye that can see, no matter where you're used to looking, will work differently and therefore stimulate the brain in new places.

Offline invictus

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 05:25:50 AM
As cjp_piano said, in the long term, it will benefit greatly.

On a note on practicing: Don't practice too much on the last week, instead, close on yours, relax, and think of the music. Think of how it should sound and how you will play it, it works like magic for me.

Offline bennom

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 10:26:17 PM

On a note on practicing: Don't practice too much on the last week, instead, close on yours, relax, and think of the music. Think of how it should sound and how you will play it, it works like magic for me.

Sounds great! But unfortunately, I'm just too superstitious to keep myself from practising the week before concert: In this case, even more; it's with orchestra, and that's making me more careful than normal concerts.

More practicing enhancement methods, please! :)

Offline rc

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 05:28:34 AM
I love practicing blind! Watching doesn't really do much anyways, and after practicing blind, I find watching my hands to be more of a distration than anything... I remember my teacher once commented that on the really hard bits I would gaze off, rather than look at my hands.

I find that practicing blind develops a sort of inner sight, where you visually imagine the keys you want to hit, and sort of 'see' what's happening in that way ;D.

Quote
*play with closed eyes (in mozart and bach and similar, otherwise it's to much jumps to be of any use)

Ever try practicing 'jumpy' music blind? Really does wonders for your sense of touch, and you feel so free over the keyboard when you can do them blind.

That said, I don't do it too often, since it takes so much time and effort to get it down. ;D

 8)

Offline kriskicksass

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 03:33:49 PM
One of Dohnanyi's exercises is specifically marked to be played blind and it's big chunky chords that leap all over the piano.
I like the idea of playing blind. There's something very zen-like about effortlessly moving about your instrument, worrying about music rather than accuracy.

Offline thorn

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 05:42:32 PM
this is just a development on something you already said...

but my piano teacher always used to get all his students to practise at a ridiculously slow tempo and 'ppp' at the same time. im not sure why.. but whatever it's meant to do works well for me

Offline bernhard

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #7 on: April 18, 2006, 12:09:58 AM
Have a look here, you may find it intriguing:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2075.msg17593.html#msg17593
(silent practice and its advantages – Good post by faulty damper about unenthusiastic parents)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2368.msg20470.html#msg20470
(Virgil clavier & silent practice – Ted gives some good information. – how Arrau used one)

Best wishes,
Bernhard
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #8 on: April 18, 2006, 01:14:04 AM
I wouldn't even dream about give too much time with seperate hands or slowing down the tempo 1 week before a peformance. Perhaps I will bring the tempo to a pathetically slow rate in very difficult sections just so I can give myself confidence that I do really know every single note in that passage and can control it slowly, but immediately after practicing it slowly I will play it back at tempo testing my balance and subconsious playing (forgetting about the notes and listening to sound) in that passage.

Speed of the fingers is an illusion. Even if you play slow you are not making the effort required to play the passage any easier, rather you are taking time to consciously observe the balance of your hand about groups of notes the piece calls for and moving from one to another at a slow rate, the feeling of the balance is much more gradual and thus tests us much more in comparison to playing closer to tempo. This is more DIFFICULT in my opinion because you have think about every position change or feel it but very gradual which is tougher than moving the hands quickly to a point. This is not playing without thought (over the notes) but thinking as you play which is a mental drain.

Some people might throw their hands up and say, BUT I can play pieces slowly but trying it at tempo I fail! This is not because they cannot physically play fast it is because they have not learnt to control the group of notes and understood the balance required to control them without thought. They are too tied up on individual note playing and/or are consciously observing each movement group (when the hand has to move and control a new set of notes, when this is memorised we memorise a piece). They have not fully appreciated 1) What fingers wait above their notes 2) how the fingers move to their new positions. It has nothing to do with finger speed, unless they are a real beginner who has had no experience playing piano, then it is usually always a coordination issue if not the latter.

When you play through a passage at tempo you find that the flow of balance you experience in your hands is much more connected, however subtle inaccuracies (in balance or note control) can be covered up/played over, as they say, you can play decievingly.

So an issue I like to constantly ask and what fine tunes your physical excecution of the piece constantly, is that of Balance. I pin point where are the parts which act against natural comfortable balance of the hand and try to eliminate or reduce its effects. Of course you can get away with peformances with these inbalance issues like a thorn in your foot, keep walking as if it doesn't do anything, but sometimes nerves can get the better of you, and your subtle balance inaccuracies can translate to major errorrs. I find I rarely make note errors onstage if I am 100% confident that everything in a piece is physically balanced at the hands and doesn't cause any strain on the physical body. But some pieces you have to take a risk with the first time playing it publically, sometimes you cannot prepare yourself enough to make everything completely automatic and effortless, that is ok if you know you will get better in time and how you play it now you will improve upon. You don't have to play at your very best every time you peform, hopefilly you get better with age and people will appreciate where you are at this stage of your musical journey.

But anyway, Balance to me is how to interpret the physical nature of playing the piano. Balance covers all technique you find at the piano. If a technique at the piano does not relate to an increase comfort to the hand through the use of balance then it is not piano technique, not a one you will be able to (or want to) use all your life anyway. Balance is a subjective issue and is a big reason why it is so complicated to describe technique without experimenting and feeling it in the hands, but it is also something that we never ever stop refining.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline lilypiano

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #9 on: April 18, 2006, 03:14:30 AM
I sorta practice blind.  my eyes get so stuck on the score that I hardly ever look down.  (probably should put more effort into memorizing.) Looking at my hands messes me up most of the time.

Offline panic

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #10 on: April 18, 2006, 04:27:41 AM
Practicing eyes closed is a great idea.

1. It tests whether your hands know naturally where to fly about in a piece - that's how you know you've got it down cold.
2. It helps remind you that it's all about the sound.
3. For a person like me that watches their hands all the time, it helps me stop agonizing over hitting every note and focus on the bigger scheme of the piece.

Offline bennom

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #11 on: April 18, 2006, 09:12:01 PM
Come on! Someone's got to have some suggestions, except from the already mentioned:

No, I like to find out more methods to increase focus, especially when you're starting to get bored with the music, but you still have to work with it.

Some are obvious, like:
*play with one hand only (from memory)
*play in extreme tempos
*take new voices to the fore
*no pedal
*flip the nuances and expressions (forte=piano, dolce=brutale and so on)
*playing backwards (in sections of course!)
*play with closed eyes (in mozart and bach and similar, otherwise it's to much jumps to be of any use)

...more??

...more? :P

Offline rc

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #12 on: April 19, 2006, 05:27:45 AM
To increase focus?

*play ridiculously slow, 1 note/second. To drive yourself insane, and test memory. (but, I guess you already mentioned extreme tempos)
*transpositions. Whichever key feels most uncomfortable.
*this one's actually fun: improvise with the themes
*articulation (all legato/staccato, a mixture)

...Are you actually going to be doing all these things?

Offline sergei r

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #13 on: April 19, 2006, 07:41:00 AM
Did anyone mention rhythm variations? My teacher makes me do them sometimes and I think I've read on this forum somewhere that they can be really helpful for making difficult/fast passages sound smooth and even.
/)_/)
(^.^)
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Bunny - the revolution is coming...

Offline tds

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #14 on: April 19, 2006, 07:42:34 AM
a couple of days prior to concert....

hmm, how about giving yourself a special treatment ( as to regain your inner poise, feel settled-- yes, simply feel good about yourself ), such as:

1. buy yourself ice cream, or cake, or things that you have longed for
2. find quiet, quality time throughout the day and be in the good company with yourself.
3. pray ( if you do )
4. be in touch with nature: walk your dog, walk around find fresh air, etc.
5. exercise
6. minimise your pianostreet foruming activity.

all the best, tds




dignity, love and joy.

Offline tds

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #15 on: April 19, 2006, 07:46:23 AM
oh and..

7. be informed that we all love you.

heh, tds
dignity, love and joy.

Offline bennom

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #16 on: April 19, 2006, 09:10:40 PM
To increase focus?

*play ridiculously slow, 1 note/second. To drive yourself insane, and test memory. (but, I guess you already mentioned extreme tempos)
*transpositions. Whichever key feels most uncomfortable.
*this one's actually fun: improvise with the themes
*articulation (all legato/staccato, a mixture)

...Are you actually going to be doing all these things?

Love the articulation mixing!

...well, to be frank I will not do it all now, but I'm saving it for later! :)

a couple of days prior to concert....

hmm, how about giving yourself a special treatment ( as to regain your inner poise, feel settled-- yes, simply feel good about yourself ), such as:

1. buy yourself ice cream, or cake, or things that you have longed for
2. find quiet, quality time throughout the day and be in the good company with yourself.
3. pray ( if you do )
4. be in touch with nature: walk your dog, walk around find fresh air, etc.
5. exercise
6. minimise your pianostreet foruming activity.

all the best, tds

1. will do
2. will do
3. will not
4. have no dog
5. will do
6. ok...

oh and..

7. be informed that we all love you.

heh, tds

 ;D

Offline maxy

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #17 on: April 19, 2006, 09:50:25 PM
I would like to see someone play la camp blindfolded.   :P

Offline tds

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #18 on: April 20, 2006, 05:37:55 AM
I would like to see someone play la camp blindfolded.   :P

well, its good enough to be able to play it flawlessly with eyes open. in fact, i've never played it absolutely perfectly in concert. i guess it takes three balls to be able to do it.
dignity, love and joy.

Offline tds

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #19 on: April 20, 2006, 05:40:38 AM
4. have no dog

dog increases ones happiness, hence quality of piano playing...

dignity, love and joy.

Offline rc

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #20 on: April 20, 2006, 06:24:58 AM
Love the articulation mixing!

...well, to be frank I will not do it all now, but I'm saving it for later! :)

Ever tried playing with your perception of a piece? This is more of an exercise in imagination... But try playing the same piece while giving it different meanings.

Imagining it as representing a walk through a snowy field, or the intensity of being chased, the feel of the sun on your skin... Whatever you can imagine. Of course a piece will be naturally suited to a certain mood, but try playing it for a less-suitable mood. I sometimes stumble into interesting interpretations with these 'emotion experiments'.

Offline bennom

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Re: With closed eyes...
Reply #21 on: April 25, 2006, 11:49:56 AM
Now, we're getting somewhere! Here's what the piano street academy has found so far in the field of practice enhancement.


*play with one hand only (from memory)
*play in extreme tempos
*take new voices to the fore
*no pedal
*flip the nuances and expressions (forte=piano, dolce=brutale and so on)
*playing backwards (in sections of course!)
*play with closed eyes (in mozart and bach and similar, otherwise it's to much jumps to be of any use)
*transpositions. Whichever key feels most uncomfortable.
*this one's actually fun: improvise with the themes
*articulation (all legato/staccato, a mixture)
Did anyone mention rhythm variations? My teacher makes me do them sometimes and I think I've read on this forum somewhere that they can be really helpful for making difficult/fast passages sound smooth and even.
Ever tried playing with your perception of a piece? This is more of an exercise in imagination... But try playing the same piece while giving it different meanings.

Imagining it as representing a walk through a snowy field, or the intensity of being chased, the feel of the sun on your skin... Whatever you can imagine. Of course a piece will be naturally suited to a certain mood, but try playing it for a less-suitable mood. I sometimes stumble into interesting interpretations with these 'emotion experiments'.
dog increases ones happiness, hence quality of piano playing...

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