What does it take to "read"?

[cherryfive]

Hiya. I am new here, good to be here (!), this is my first post.
Basically I would like to understand something about reading music.

I've been playing by ear for most of my days (I turned 20 not too long ago) and now I am beginning to learn theory. When I look at sheet music, I can ever so slowly figure out the chords, and keys and all of that stuff. I do not have timing or rhythm learned yet, or at least complex timing. In any event, I am playing on an 88-key piano, and I am reading sheet music of a joni Mitchell album from 1975. I have the songs memorized in my head from owning the album, so being able to read the time sigs and note values isn't exactly essetial for reading these pieces (I however do plan to learn time sigs, but it seems to be something that needs to be demonstrated rather than learned by myself).

In any event, these songs took me...oh gosh...like a minute just to decypher one chord. I don't have the staff lines memorized (even though the "every  good boy deserves fudge" works, along with the bass cleff mantram, but these cheats don't really help in real time. When I'm trying to read the music, I sort of "freeze" up and move very slowly). I don't exactly have all of my major scales or minor scales memorized, nor do I have my key signatures memorized. But alas, I have made myself "cheat" sheets describing all of the major keys and their relative minors, along with the respective major and minor scales.


I am trying to teach myself all of these things, I don't have a teacher yet. As you can see, I am unorthadox and I am sort of a mess (not to mention a COMPLETE beginner as far as reading is concerned). I feel confused, and I don't know what the next step should be, in order to "read" music, or "sight read". However, I am fully realistic, and I understand that patience is a virtue and that practice is a must. I am commited. I would just like you to tell me what my next step should be. I have a theory book here, but it doesn't really go into reading. Just theory infos (which is still very helpful).

Should my next step be memorizing all of the scales and keys, verbatim? Is there some simple sheet music I can read, you know, like "beginners" sheet music? 

Here is a sample of the sheet music I am reading off of that 1975 Joni Mitchell sheet music. This is so you can see what I am trying to read properly (the picture can be enlarged):   

https://www.photographs.homestead.com/1976Joni.jpg


I am such a dolt! I'm not a bad musician actually. I play guitar, bass, drums, flute, keys relatively well...but everything by ear. Anyway I apologize for rambling on. It's about 4 am here and I am just confused, that is all. I would love to hear some words!

Absolute Best Regards, 

John
https://octavecat.homestead.com/Music.html

[bernhard]

Have a look at these threads. They answer all of your questions. If they are unsatisfactory come back. (And welcome to the forum).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1871.msg14384.html#msg14384
(Reading notation – Richmann’s book – Cambridge word scramble example)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1976.msg15962.html#msg15962
(Sight reading – Richmann’s book)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2406.msg20820.html#msg20820
(the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2577.msg22247.html#msg22247
(Keyboard topography – how to find notes by touch)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2713.msg23282.html#msg23282
(Teaching bass clef – the full explanation for the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2751.msg23710.html#msg23710
(detailed explanation of the sight-reading process)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2757.msg23890.html#msg23890
(Sight reading techniques – Good post by faulty on the folly of pedagogues)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2763.msg25148.html#msg25148
(music to develop sight reading from scratch)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3205.msg28255.html#msg28255
(how not to look at the keys – Richmann’s reviews)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3334.msg29381.html#msg29381
(Reading both staffs as a single grand staff - Reasons for working on scales - Detailed discussion of Richmann’s book)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4461.msg41580.html#msg41580
(Looking at the keys: Good or bad? exercises to help finding notes by touch. Good contributions by Chang).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4506.msg42967.html#msg42967
(accompanying as a way to teach sightreading)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5090.msg48850.html#msg48850
(the score is tabs for piano)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6704.msg66349.html#msg66349
(graphic illustration of how the grand staff relates to the piano keys)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7466.msg74462.html#msg74462
(Sightreading – Comparison with reading – St Augustine reading skills)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,9786.msg99290.html#msg99290
(collections of repertory for sight-reading practice)


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[cherryfive]

This is great- I really appreciate all of the links with all of the information. Thank you kindly. I have pretty much read everything you wrote and feel I have benefited greatly. Very very interesting stuff. However, I did stumble upon something you wrote which I disagree with, slightly.

I would also like to reverse your analogy. The carpenter is actually the guy who cannot sight read. Yes, he will be able to put up a wall quickly by “sight”, just as an illiterate musician will be able to convey music quickly by ear. But there is a price to pay. The carpenter will not be able to project anything but the simplest hut. While the literate person who is conversant with Maths and Physics, will be able to project a complex building.

I have had a lot of theory teachers tell me I would be limited if I didn't learn the theory and the notation reading. You're all the way over in the UK right? Well then I'm sure you've heard of a 70's band called "Yes". They were all ear musicians, and one of the members was a trained pianist. But in interviews, they speak of never using theory to compose their music, and that 4 out of the 5 band members didn't even know theory or reading at all. In the 70's, this band was really cooking and had many albums which featured many long-winded complex-as-hades 20 minute pieces in the "symphonic rock" setting. This is one of the reasons I renounced theory so much. I can play as good as those guys in Yes and I am aiming for the "creative" aspect of composing, and my ear would be good enough to support me in what I am doing. In other news, there were many equally complex bands in the 70's, all strictly ear musicians. Sadly, the standards of rock and pop music have dropped considerably since the late 70's, but I feel this is one genre of music a lot of theory-minded people overlook. Complex, meaningful thoughtful highly-sophisticated music can be made by all-ear musicians. It just depends on interest, creativity, and the big "talent".
However, as a competant musician, I find theory to be one hell of a challenge, and I have relied on my ear so heavily that I am finding it difficult to break the cycle. I want to learn how to sight-read because I want to be a universal pianist- I want to be able to play any dam thing you put in front of me, particularly things I have never heard. Wouldnt that be bloody darn brilliant? I think so! I'm sure you know! I also have another motivation and that is to play in a US Air Force band. One of the requirments to get in is to be able to cogently sight-read. I have thought about it long and hard, and I now realize that my best skill is in music, so exploit it right? The US Air Force offers many enticing benefits- the Montgomery GI bill just to name a few.
 
Well, anyhow, I am sorry for ranting and raving, and don't take anything I said personally! I already have a great deal of respect for you and other list members based on what I have read here alone. Brilliant stuff.

Again thank you.

Regards,
John 
https://octavecat.homestead.com/Music.html

 


 

 

   

[prometheus]

Rock musicians always say they don't know any theory and that they can't read music. It's part of their image.

Don't let these guys fool you. Some of them do know plenty of things.

[pianistimo]

your learning to do what a printer does.  scan farther and farther.  if you know what's coming - you can prepare for it. 

take an index card and first cover the lh and just play the rh as far as you can (no chords).  try to get through the entire piece without stopping.  then, cover the rh part and try to just play the chords (looking at the chord chart as well, helps so you know what chord you are playing - and sometimes the lowest note will match up with chord name. 

then, turn your index card sideways (in your mind) and keep playing slowly each chord and melody note (writing out the notes if you have to).  after you can play a measure on beat (practice JUST that measure over and over until it is up to speed) - then take one beat more.  then practice scanning the entire measure plus that one beat.  once you can do that and successfully play it (even if it is memory retention playing) scan another beat.  practice the measure + 2 beats over and over.  then scan and add three beats.  practice over and over.

what you are doing is reinforcing what you have read and not going so fast that you immediately forget what you learned at the beginning.  in the end, you should be able to play by sight, memory, AND feel.  and, you are learning to NOT play before you scan.  you have to look ahead to as many beats as you are going to play, then play without stopping to that point.

with repertoire and accompanying - i ALWAYS scan the entire piece (and hum it in my head if i can with the rhythms in mind, too).  it may take 2-3 minutes depending on the piece.  then, i sit down and scan again the first line or half line before i start to play.  this minimizes mistakes.

[elpegasso]

   
...I want to learn how to sight-read because I want to be a universal pianist- I want to be able to play any dam thing you put in front of me, particularly things I have never heard.

Hello cherryfive John!

How long have you been playing the mentioned instruments?
Perhaps I can give you my 2 cents of help regarding the music reading.  I haven't read through any of the thread links that Bernhard posted, thus the suggested book I will recommend may already be mentioned in those threads.

I'm currently taking private piano lessons at a college to learn how to sight read music.  I, like you, have been "early" inclined ever since I started playing piano/keyboard.  Although my playing was pretty descent and improved over time, I always felt like an idiot because I never knew what key I played.  Others would ask what key I played such and such song, so I was always left feeling stupid because I would always answer them "i don't know, i only play by ear".  Thus, I just began last summer in August learning my scales, chords on my own, but then decided that would be too painstaking on my own.  Thus, I decided to take private lessons at a music store, but wasn't too satisfied with that instructor.  I guess he never figured out I wasn't able to read music.  So I decided to register where I had taken piano lessons back in 1994 for two semesters.  I now have a greattt piano teacher which takes the extra time to help me out.

My current instructor knew I needed to learn to sight read, so he has made me purchase some volumes from Belá Bartok called Microcosmos (or Mikrokosmos).   There are 6 volumes, I believe, I bought the first two volumes and I'm just finishing the first.  For me, this first volume has been helping me with sight-reading.  He goes further and sometimes gives me reading excercises from Gurlitt he has, which are beginner's sight-reading books.

This is my second semester and i'm pretty much done with volume 1 (i started it towards the very end of the first semester).  Although I'm not a music major, he still teaches me almost as if I was one.  But I haven't put as much time as I could into practicing the sight-reading excercise.  So I believe that if you practice sight-read as hard as if you would practice some kind of Bach Invention (for example), you could enhance the reading skills at a much rapid pace.  I would be a lot more advanced in my sight-reading skills if I would be putting in the extra hours.  So I guess it just depends on the individual how quickly he/she advances depending on the effort put into the sight-reading excercices.

And as a requirement for the private piano lessons, I have to perform some pieces for a recital at the end of the semester.  So my instructor has given me pieces from different composers that have helped me acquire more technique and of course, the sight-reading comes with it.

In regards to what you mentioned that you which to be a universal-pianist...I have a similar inclination.  In particular, I want to learn how to be very good pianist/keyboardist/organist with latin music such as Salsa/Merengue, Blues/Jazz, country, rock, and classical, and many other styles.  Being able to play and understand various forms/styles of music makes me feel a more rounded musician, for me that is, although one specific style would be the strongest overall.

Now, since you mentioned you have good ear to play and want to learn any music you've never heard of... I have some keyboard songs (instrumentals) that are from some mexican bands which I think could interest you to learn.  I don't know what your level of technical skills are in the piano, and so perhaps they could be somewhat easy, or somewhat challenging.  If you are interested in these, let me know.

I've written a book already, so I will leave you with the above hoping it could help you out on what you're pursuing.

regards,
Valentin