goodlooking pianists

[eddie92099]

Well, the fact that Maksim is mentioned here for so many times prooves that there is something about that man...It prooves that he is "worth" something.

One could say the same of Hitler since there are so many books written about him. Probably not a fair comparison though, Hitler is an angel compared to Maksim,
Ed

[nad]

Well, the fact that Maksim is mentioned here for so many times prooves that there is something about that man. Poeple either hate or adore him. It prooves that he is "worth" something.

That is such rubbish.

Lets vote now: I like him a lot, both his looks and his music! If I was a girl, I'd probobly have his poster in my room.

If you're such a fan why couldn't you have a poster of him?

Am I alone with this view?[/quote]

As far as his music goes, i doubt many people on this forum will agree; https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=misc;action=display;num=1073252096

Looks is a matter of taste, it can be debated.
Maksim r**ing music can not be debated. That is in one word; horror

He is also in the top 3 of evils on this forum, in case you didn't know.

[Hazim]

Ha Ha  Ha! I've had such a great laugh reading all the posts related to Maksim. It is funny how people hate him so much, but I really do not understand why.

I do not cathegorise Maksim into a top class pianist, and you could all have noticed that I refered to him as to a musician, not a pianist. For that metter, he definitely is a better musician than all the Britney Spears' and other plastic-made clones.

regards,

/H.

[nad]

musician

You mean muppet.

[comme_le_vent]

maksim is such a legendary figure in my mind.

he gives hope to us all.

[nad]

Just for the record; I don't hate him. I don't waste such energetic emotions, especially not on a muppet  

[Hazim]

OK, yesterday, after all the fuss related to Maksim, I decided to buy his CD and hear it for myself (othervise, I would probobly never do that). Two hours later, I gave the CD away as a gift to my neighbor who is in love with him. All my previous postings were based on his two videos and a TV show of him. However, after listening to his album, I am very dissapointed. His arrangements are based on a "cheap" techno party loops that remind me of a synthesizers shop demo. These loops add energy to the music, but that is only if you observe it from the point of view of someone who does not enjoy classical music. In real life, the what he is doing is a CRIME, he cheats listener and instead of playing piano properly, he adds these loloops to cover up .

However, I do think that he has an "ear" and he could become a realy good pianist, but the direction he took is just a commercial one, and to be honest with you, considering all the money he makes, I completely understand him. And, he is still better than majority of techno and plastic music that is bombarding us.

[sharon_f]

When he was younger Philippe Entremont was very handsome, with "movie star" looks. Actually, he's still a very attractive man for his age.

Jean-Yves Thibaudet is also quite attractive.

Something about French pianists ....

[L.K.]

I'm not gay but Krystian Zimerman was really good looking when he was young.

[comme_le_vent]

I'm not gay

now is that a fact? i wonder why people are afraid of seeming gay on this forum.  :-/

[nad]

now is that a fact? i wonder why people are afraid of seeming gay on this forum.  :-/

LoL exactly. Determing whether someone is goodlooking or not can be done without having sexual preferences interfere.

[comme_le_vent]

I'M NOT GAY!!!

not thats theres anything wrong with that........

(seinfeld quote)  

[ayahav]

referring to the comparison made to Hitler a while back:

One could say the same of Hitler since there are so many books written about him. Probably not a fair comparison though, Hitler is an angel compared to Maksim,
Ed

Ed - you're foolish and naive. There is no man living on the face of the earth that can be compared to the evil, disgusting, wretch that Hitler was. I can't even put into words the emotions that seeing that name make me feel... The man is, after all, responsible for the murder of more than half my family. Yes - granted, it has been two generations, but no - I still feel the lack of cousins that I could have had. The injustice you do by using such an analogy can only be measured by the offence caused by it. How can you possibly compare Maksim, to Hitler? How many people has Maksim killed? How many people has he condemned to death in horrible, brutal, cruel and unimaginable ways?

I would ask you kindly to withdraw your statement.  

might I add that I am also disappointed that someone of your age does not see the absurdity of your analogy.

Amit

[comme_le_vent]

lets see if ed can admit that he was wrong for once.....

[ayahav]

does that mean you're backing me up? just perchance, that there might be someone else out there of a similar opinion?

[eddie92099]

Dear Amit,
When I called Hitler an angel, I was using the following definition for the word:
Informal. A financial backer of an enterprise, especially a dramatic production or a political campaign
(Courtesy of www.dictionary.com).
Might I add that I am also disappointed that someone of your age does not see the absurdity of your rant given the misunderstood circumstances. I humbly accept your apology, although I resent the fact that you have brought back the memories of my unborn cousins. I suggest you think about what you say before you say it in the future - just some friendly advice,
Ed

[ayahav]

Again you surprise me with your pompous attitude. Though you may have, or not, used the term angel in one way or another, the fact remains that you have offended me, and I can assure you that you have offended many other people as well. My attack was not directed your use of the word angel, but rather at your entire analogy of comparing a musician to Hitler. As a Jew I can tell you in a very straightforward manner: there has not been one event in the history of mankind which can compare in anyway to the holocaust, and therefore no man on earth that can compare to Hitler.

How does it even come to your mind to compare a pianist to Hitler in the first place? Whether both were backing a political campaign or not, and whether you prefer one over the other, or whether you're just too naive to understand, Hitler and the Holocaust is a topic which is still very sensitive on many areas. There are still many people out there who lived through it, and many people to whom the sheer word brings back unthinkable memories. It is not for you to decide whether it is alright to use an analogy which is so sensitive and offensive, but rather up to others - to the society in which you live. And if your society allows you to compare a pianist whom you strongly dislike to a man who murdered 6 millions Jews, and 4 million people whom he disliked for different reasons, then your society is nothing short of barbaric. Whether your realise, or not, you are spraying salt onto people's open wounds.

Your stubbornness in the matter only worsens the offence which you are causing many people. It is perhaps not the case that all members of this forum are Jewish, but some are. If you cannot be considerate to other people and think of the consequences of what you say, then I believe you shouldn't be allowed to post on this forum.

Lastly, just to give you an idea of what Hitler is all about: this is a man who issued orders to deceive thousands of men, women and children into thinking that they were going to take a shower, while in reality poisoning them with cyanide gas. A man who had people burned alive. A man who allowed for people to be shot randomly and for no reason, because they were an untermensch, and unworthy of living. A man who stood by and watched while men and women were being piled up like logs and burnt alive, a pregnant woman at the top just to see her uterus explode and her baby come out. A man who did nothing as babies were being tossed into the air for target practice - yes, for the German soldiers to try and shoot them while they were still in the air. A man whose immediate inferiors had women strung up to the ceiling by their hair, so that they could watch them swing. People who did this: (mind you, this is a mild picture)


And you are trying to tell me that a man who is responsible for all of that can be compared to a simple pianist on the count that he also backed a large financial and political campaign? No offence meant, but if your answer is yes, you should have your head checked!

[faulty_damper]

i agree with comme le vente...liszt is prob the best looking male pianist (but im not gay either), lol im growing my hair out right now so i can have a similiar look as liszt.. and the young glenn gould looks good too, at least when he plays
im not familiar with many female pianists but definitely the younger martha algerich

When one must mention aloud that they are not gay, they must be hiding something.  There own insecurities, perhaps.  And when one accuses another for being gay, he is purposely attempting to draw attention away from himself.

Rachliszt et le Vent, you two were meant for each other.  (I'm not gay, either, so don't draw me into your twosome.)

[faulty_damper]

referring to the comparison made to Hitler a while back:


Ed - you're foolish and naive. There is no man living on the face of the earth that can be compared to the evil, disgusting, wretch that Hitler was. I can't even put into words the emotions that seeing that name make me feel... The man is, after all, responsible for the murder of more than half my family. Yes - granted, it has been two generations, but no - I still feel the lack of cousins that I could have had. The injustice you do by using such an analogy can only be measured by the offence caused by it. How can you possibly compare Maksim, to Hitler? How many people has Maksim killed? How many people has he condemned to death in horrible, brutal, cruel and unimaginable ways?

I would ask you kindly to withdraw your statement.  

might I add that I am also disappointed that someone of your age does not see the absurdity of your analogy.

Amit

Hitler was a great man.  He said what he said and he followed through.  Always.

He is among a select few who had such convictions and was hardly the hypocrit.  Very few could say that of themselves.  What he did is not the issue.  But what he did is what made famous.  He was the ideal of a "great man".  Great men today?  "..."  or in the past:  Martin Luther King, Jr. (maybe... we don't know much about his family life), Socrates (he ended dying for his convictions), ....

Adolf Hitler.  A good husband, father, leader.
 Bill Clinton, too many "f-favors" to be a good husband, father of a daughter (but we don't know his relationship with her), leader of the United States for a while - look where the US is now.

[ayahav]

You disgust me. Regardless of what such a man could do well, or how hhe followed his convictions through to the end, he deserves nothing good  to be said about him.

[faulty_damper]

One must learn to distinguish discriminately.  

Referring back to your previous post, the one best to judge is no one of consequence to the situation.  You are, by choice, a consequence of Him.  And as such a consequence, He has succeeded is his political aim, has he not?  And yet by this consequence, the failure of this realization, He continues and will continue to succeed in his goal even beyond his death for those of his consequences are the ones who keep it.  Not He for he is dead.

[eddie92099]

Though you may have, or not, used the term angel in one way or another, the fact remains that you have offended me, and I can assure you that you have offended many other people as well.

This is only because you chose to twist what I actually said into something that you found offensive.

My attack was not directed your use of the word angel, but rather at your entire analogy of comparing a musician to Hitler.

If you actually read what I said before leaping at the opportunity to go on a quasi-insane rant, you would notice I mentioned Hitler to disprove a point by Hazim who said "Well, the fact that Maksim is mentioned here for so many times prooves that there is something about that man...It prooves that he is "worth" something." For some reason you just saw the word Hitler and presumed I was being anti-semitic.

As a Jew I can tell you in a very straightforward manner: there has not been one event in the history of mankind which can compare in anyway to the holocaust, and therefore no man on earth that can compare to Hitler.

I entirely disagree with your logic. There are many people who have held and continue to hold similar views to that of Hitler, they merely didn't have or don't have the opportunity to carry out their plans.

How does it even come to your mind to compare a pianist to Hitler in the first place? Whether both were backing a political campaign or not, and whether you prefer one over the other, or whether you're just too naive to understand, Hitler and the Holocaust is a topic which is still very sensitive on many areas.

You are repeating yourself here. It's tedious in the extreme.

There are still many people out there who lived through it, and many people to whom the sheer word brings back unthinkable memories. It is not for you to decide whether it is alright to use an analogy which is so sensitive and offensive, but rather up to others - to the society in which you live. And if your society allows you to compare a pianist whom you strongly dislike to a man who murdered 6 millions Jews, and 4 million people whom he disliked for different reasons, then your society is nothing short of barbaric. Whether your realise, or not, you are spraying salt onto people's open wounds.

So the word Hitler should be a taboo? We are all civilised here. Let's not beat about the bush. Your longing for censorship what make Goebbels proud. And for the last time, I was not being offensive. You can't just see one word and label me as anti-semitic. It's ridiculous.

Your stubbornness in the matter only worsens the offense which you are causing many people. It is perhaps not the case that all members of this forum are Jewish, but some are.

Yes. My surname is Cohen, by the way.

If you cannot be considerate to other people and think of the consequences of what you say, then I believe you shouldn't be allowed to post on this forum.

And if you continue to rant at me just because you misunderstood what I said then I believe you shouldn't be allowed out of your psychiatrist's office until you have realised your underlying tensions and social deficiencies.

Lastly, just to give you an idea of what Hitler is all about...

I have studied Nazi Germany.

And you are trying to tell me that a man who is responsible for all of that can be compared to a simple pianist on the count that he also backed a large financial and political campaign? No offense meant, but if your answer is yes, you should have your head checked!

Let's not be naive here. Maksim is a "piano player" at best,
Ed  

[ayahav]

again..... my attack was not at you, but at your analogy which is absurd and offensive. There exists nothing on the face of this planet that can compare in the least to Hitler and the consequences of his actions. And if your last name is Cohen, and you don't understand that you should be ashamed of yourself.

[ayahav]

I am not saying that the word Hitler should be taboo, but rather that one must consider very carefully what the consequences of making a comparison to Hitler will be and whether that comparison can even be made. Hitler was NOT a great man, and there is nothing good that can or should be said about him because it will soon be weighed down by all the bad things that he has done, caused, didn't prevent, etc.. I think you people are sick.

Anyway, if you people do not understand the gravity of your actions,  I am not going to argue further.

Whoever has the name Cohen, and thinks it is ok to exalt Hitler for being a great man, and following all his convictions is a disgrace to the Jewish faith.

p.s.: for all of you who choose to believe in the grandeur of Hitler, think of the hell into which he led his people - it took Germany about 30-40 years to fully recover.

[ayahav]

I am sorry to post so many times but I keep reading the last post by ed, and I keep seeing new things that enrage me.

I have studied Nazi Germany.

---that was obviously not enough.

and whether maksim is a pianist, a piano player, a musician, or a circus monkey, he CANNOT be compared to Hitler on the simple count that you provided.

[nad]

Whoever has the name Cohen, and thinks it is ok to exalt Hitler for being a great man, and following all his convictions is a disgrace to the Jewish faith.

I'm sorry but I never read that Ed thinks Hitler is a great man. In fact he pointed out earlier that, although there are many books about him, it doesnt mean that he is worth something.

[ayahav]

look again.... I'm not sure who it was anymore, but someone said that Hitler was a great man for not being a hypocrit and for following his convictions...

I'm sorry if THIS is not Ed, but Ed also owes me an apology, I believe.

the word 'angel' has a very positive connotation. It is associated with religion and heaven. Whether or not it was used in a different way, the sentence "Hitler is an angel compared to Maksim" implies that Hitler was good. That is what offended me.

[eddie92099]

again..... my attack was not at you, but at your analogy which is absurd and offensive.

I was merely comparing their financial strategies. Do I need to repeat my definition of angel? I find you absurd and offensive for bringing up other aspects of Hitler's rule which I don't care to discuss.

There exists nothing on the face of this planet that can compare in the least to Hitler and the consequences of his actions. And if your last name is Cohen, and you don't understand that you should be ashamed of yourself.

Stop playing on outlived sympathies. It's cromulent beyond belief. I'm bored of you now,
Ed

[ayahav]

You disgust me beyond belief. I am not going to waste any more of my energies on try to change your WRONG opinion, because you are obviously as stubborn as a mule. You should be ashamed of yourself.

NOTHING GOOD SHOULD BE SAID ABOUT A HORRIBLE MAN SUCH AS HITLER!!! Such a great leader that he lead his people straight into the dumpster.

[eddie92099]

the sentence "Hitler is an angel compared to Maksim" implies that Hitler was good

It most certainly does not and I happen to think Hitler was a man who held views that I find great difficulty in indentifying with. The sentence, though, in the context of the discussion, implied Maksim was bad rather than anything about Hitler. Your cromulence is very foolish,
Ed

[eddie92099]

NOTHING GOOD SHOULD BE SAID ABOUT A HORRIBLE MAN SUCH AS HITLER!!! Such a great leader that he lead his people straight into the dumpster.

You're disgustingly dogmatic. Can you really not see anything good in him at all? I pity you, so full of clouding hatred,
Ed

[ayahav]

You disgust me beyond belief. I am not going to waste any more of my energies on try to change your WRONG opinion, because you are obviously as stubborn as a mule. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 

by that I end here!

[comme_le_vent]

ok now i think hitler was a terribly bad man - he was succesful in his aims - but that is not the mark of a great man.
the mark of a great man is how good a person he was, and he wasnt a good person.

i am in two minds about this conversation - i find everything hitler did totally atrocious - but i also find it funny when jokes are made relating to him.

to use a more contemporary example - making jokes about the event '9/11' - is it possible for there to be a funny one made?

[faulty_damper]

What the heck is going on here, you ask?  I think the topic of good looking pianists is under the awesome power of Hitler for even after his death he still inflicts something, whatever it is, upon some people.  Those who are inflicted by him do it to themselves not because He does something but because they allow it.

But unfortunately, they don't see this.  He no longers inflicts for he is dead but the inflicted continue to inflict themselves.  


About that day in September:
Yes, something funny can be made of that day.  It's all about perspective.  Unfortunately, many people only have one perspective and dare not, by choice, to venture out for another perspective.  Those who can see from different angles are those who can better understand.  

 If there is a wall in your path, do you walk straight into it trying to get past it?  Or do you walk around the wall to get past it?  The latter allows one to look back at those who are trying desperately to continue walking the path but don't realize that they could have just walked around it.  But in order to know to walk around it, one must first have walked into it.  Stopped forcing to walk through it.  And reflected at what he has done.  And realize afterwards that he can step back and try another path around it.  Once the wall ceases to be a barrier.  It was never a barrier in to begin with.  Only and obstacle.  But with the knowledge that this wall was not a barrier but an obstacle.  Allows for sight beyond the next wall in front of you.  But the wall obstructs view.  But with the knowledge that there is more beyond the wall; the wall is an obstacle; the path only a guide; and you, of free will, to decide.  But only in time.  But some will never realize the wall is only an obstacle.



Hitler was a great man.  By the same definition of greatness found in any dictionary.

[ayahav]

I would be sorry to inform you, kind Sir, that life is not at all about the definitions found in the dictionary. Those are called denotative meanings. A word in any language is divided into two parts. First is the denotative one, which literally states exactly what the dictionary says it is. For example, the word calculator has a denotative meaning inasmuch as it denotes a machine which performs calculations. The second part of the meaning of a word is called the connotative meaning. The connotative meaning of a word refers to the emotions that the word raises, and the ideas that it conjures. For example, the word 'mother' denotes simply the person who gave birth to someone; but also, the word mother connotes ideas of warmth and affection, and of protection.
   
    Some words have connotative meanings and others don't. The words 'sofa', 'telephone' and 'computer' do not have a specific connotative meaning - they carry no weight on the emotional level. Words like 'tyrant', and 'elder' connote more. 'Tyrant' denotes simply a man who rules a country absolutely. It also connotes abuse of power. Similarly, the word 'elder' denotes anyone who is older, but it connotes someone that one respects.

    To this end, even the media use certain words in certain places. This aspect of diction is more or less the only difference between pairs of synonyms like 'dog' and 'hound', 'cunning' and 'sly', and 'penance' and 'ruth'. Also, the headlines 'We have conquered the enemy's capital', and 'Withdrawals from conquered territory', though connoting similar actions on both sides of a conflict bears a completely different meaning to the reader.

    It is to this end that I was offended by the paring of the words 'Hitler' and 'great'. The name Hitler also possesses a connotation - not only of the worst man who ever lived, but of a ruthless dictator who commited the most terrible crimes. The word 'great', though technically only denoting something of a large size, means a lot more. The word 'great' connotes something which is positive and good. The dictionary also states (if it is the only means that applies to you):

9 : markedly superior in character or quality; especially : NOBLE <great of soul>

and

11 -- used as a generalized term of approval

(courtesy of https://www.m-w.com)

By 'great' we define, whether we intend to, or not, a measure of the goodness of the person(s) described.

For these, reasons, if any of you still want to argue that it is alright to pair 'Hitler' with 'great', and thereby connote that he was a good man and one with a pure soul, and also approve of him, you are sick, and possibly in trespass of the Nazism and Fascism laws in your respective country.

[faulty_damper]

"great" has multiple meanings.

Great - adj. (from Webster's Encyclopedia Unabridged Dictionary)
1. unusually or comparatively large in size or dimensions.
2. large in number; numerous
3. unusual or considerable in degree, power, intensity, etc.
4. wonderful; first-rate; very good
5. being such in an extreme or notable degree.
6. notable; remarkable; exceptionally outstanding.
7. important; highly significant or consequential
8. distinguished; famous.
9. of noble or lofty character.
10. chief or principle.
11. of high rank, offical position, or social standing.
12. much in the use of favor.
13. of extraordinary powers; having unsual merit; very admirable.
14. of unconsiderable duration of length.
15. informal a. enthousiastic about some specified activity. b. skillful; expert.
16. being of one generation more remote from the family relative specified.

I have bolded the numbers of the definitions of the word "great" that apply.  Those definitions can be applied to Hitler.


"By 'great' we define, whether we intend to, or not, a measure of the goodness of the person(s) described. "

No.  Not we.  You.


"For these, reasons, if any of you still want to argue that it is alright to pair 'Hitler' with 'great', and thereby connote that he was a good man and one with a pure soul, and also approve of him, you are sick, and possibly in trespass of the Nazism and Fascism laws in your respective country. "

It is you who wants to win in a frivolous argument that signifies more than is readily apparent.  Winning in this argument somehow redeems in His actions, not for him, but for yourself...?
Why you have not responded to these responses?:

One must learn to distinguish discriminately.  

Referring back to your previous post, the one best to judge is no one of consequence to the situation.  You are, by choice, a consequence of Him.  And as such a consequence, He has succeeded is his political aim, has he not?  And yet by this consequence, the failure of this realization, He continues and will continue to succeed in his goal even beyond his death for those of his consequences are the ones who keep it.  Not He for he is dead.

----

What the heck is going on here, you ask?  I think the topic of good looking pianists is under the awesome power of Hitler for even after his death he still inflicts something, whatever it is, upon some people.  Those who are inflicted by him do it to themselves not because He does something but because they allow it.

But unfortunately, they don't see this.  He no longers inflicts for he is dead but the inflicted continue to inflict themselves.    


About that day in September:
Yes, something funny can be made of that day.  It's all about perspective.  Unfortunately, many people only have one perspective and dare not, by choice, to venture out for another perspective.  Those who can see from different angles are those who can better understand.  

 If there is a wall in your path, do you walk straight into it trying to get past it?  Or do you walk around the wall to get past it?  The latter allows one to look back at those who are trying desperately to continue walking the path but don't realize that they could have just walked around it.  But in order to know to walk around it, one must first have walked into it.  Stopped forcing to walk through it.  And reflected at what he has done.  And realize afterwards that he can step back and try another path around it.  Once the wall ceases to be a barrier.  It was never a barrier in to begin with.  Only and obstacle.  But with the knowledge that this wall was not a barrier but an obstacle.  Allows for sight beyond the next wall in front of you.  But the wall obstructs view.  But with the knowledge that there is more beyond the wall; the wall is an obstacle; the path only a guide; and you, of free will, to decide.  But only in time.  But some will never realize the wall is only an obstacle.


Sometimes, those who have moved beyond the obstacle, they attempt to show those who are stuck the path they took.  But they are clouded by the magnificence of that wall.  And will notice not the herder that attempts to guide them.  The Wise Herder knows that he cannot force his flock to do what he wants but to only guide them in the safe direction.  But they must choose to be.  Many choose not.  And the Wise Herder accepts them, their choice, their fate.  Knowing he is not the Wise Herder.  Knowing that many times, the choice of what he wants and the ability to force that choice means not doing anything at all.  And many will perish at the magnificent wall.  And he knows this.  He accepts this.

[ayahav]

Great - adj. (from Webster's Encyclopedia Unabridged Dictionary)
1. unusually or comparatively large in size or dimensions.
2. large in number; numerous
3. unusual or considerable in degree, power, intensity, etc.
4. wonderful; first-rate; very good
5. being such in an extreme or notable degree.
6. notable; remarkable; exceptionally outstanding.
7. important; highly significant or consequential
8. distinguished; famous.
9. of noble or lofty character.
10. chief or principle.
11. of high rank, offical position, or social standing.
12. much in the use of favor.
13. of extraordinary powers; having unsual merit; very admirable.
14. of unconsiderable duration of length.
15. informal a. enthousiastic about some specified activity. b. skillful; expert.
16. being of one generation more remote from the family relative specified.
 
I have bolded the numbers of the definitions of the word "great" that apply.  Those definitions can be applied to Hitler.
 

can? fine... they can be applied to Hitler, I never said they couldn't. I said they SHOULD NOT be. That's where the subtlety lies. And besides, whether you want to admit it or not, 'great' is a positively connoted word whether used for 'large', 'intense' or otherwise. The only possible exception to this is number 16 where 'great' has a neutral connotation.

t is you who wants to win in a frivolous argument that signifies more than is readily apparent.

I would hardly classify this as frivolous. Accumulative of all your posts I'm gathering an "it happened, so what? gotta move on" attitude towards World War II and the Holocaust in general. I would like to inform you that it is absolutely improssible to move on, because it's not over yet. If you do a little bit of research you'll find that there exists a whole concept in psychology which is called "2nd and 3rd generation holocaust survivors". The lives of the children and grandchildren or survivors of the holocaust have also been shaped by it - don't be mistaken.

Do you realise that by boldfacing number 13 you have said that Hitler is 'very admirable'? Do you actually believe that? What is there to admire about that filthy scum?

And about not having responded to the other posts: I deem them to be too foolish to respond to. What is the connection between this, and 'distinguishing discriminately'? There is no distinction too be made. Unless you are a neo-Nazi, Hitler is the epitome of evil, brutality, and scum. And as for putting the past behind us, because we are the ones that make 'His' actions live on? I believe I have already explained the stupidity of that. And as for having capitalised 'His', is he suddenly a god? And finally, as for the story of the wall, I fail to see the analogy.

I keep trying to see this argument from your point of view, but I always reach contradictory conclusions:

1. Hitler was a great leader - he was not: he led his people straight into a shithole (excuse the wording). We've already been through the fact that it took Germany 30-40 years to fully recover from the effects of the war.

2. Hitler was a great man for following his convictions, and for not being a hypocrit - I think the truth speaks for itself that not all men who follow their convictions are great and admirable. Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin-Laden, though incomparable to Hitler, are also men who followed their convictions, but I don't hear anyone say that these people are great.

[bernhard]

Er...

Was Hitler a pianist?
Was Hitler good-looking?

I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that the answer to both questions is no.

So why is he the subject of a disproportionately long discussion on a thread dedicated to good-looking pianists?

May I suggest perhaps that the parties interested in continuing this discussion start a new thread on the "Anything but piano" board, where it clearly belongs?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[eddie92099]

I keep trying to see this argument from your point of view, but I always reach contradictory conclusions:

1. Hitler was a great leader - he was not: he led his people straight into a shithole (excuse the wording). We've already been through the fact that it took Germany 30-40 years to fully recover from the effects of the war.

There is no debate over whether Hitler was a great leader or not. It's simply ridiculous to claim that he wasn't. Just look at how Germany was transformed under his rule. You may disagree with what he did, but the man was a genius who had some extremely remarkable qualities.

2. Hitler was a great man for following his convictions, and for not being a hypocrit - I think the truth speaks for itself that not all men who follow their convictions are great and admirable. Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin-Laden, though incomparable to Hitler, are also men who followed their convictions, but I don't hear anyone say that these people are great.

They are also great. Happy now?

And finally, as for the story of the wall, I fail to see the analogy.

That's one of the problems of being behind the wall,
Ed

[ayahav]

I will now stop debating this topic, so as to allow you to maintain some certain level of dignity.

Saddam and Bin-Laden are great leaders? Need a great leader not also transform his country and people into something good? Any kind of transformation makes a great leader? If I had the whole of Holland walking on their heads by the end of this week, would I be a great leader? You're making a fool out of yourself, stop while you still have some self-respect left.

[nad]

Amit,
I see your point and I also see where it goes wrong in your comments. You are using the term 'great' with a rather dutch interpretation. Because, usually when 'we' use great it means awesome or something in that direction. However that is not how the word is used here. You are still in debate because you make a different meaning out of the word great as it is used here. And indeed, if you'd make everyone in Holland walk on their heads, then you are a great leader. Doesn't mean you're an awesome leader or a good human being though.

[ayahav]

Actually nad, don't include me in your 'we'. I am not Dutch, I am Israeli and I just live here in Holland and because of that I also speak Dutch. Though my mother tongue technically is Hebrew, I speak English a lot better, and my English is mostly better than that of native speakers (My Verbal SAT's would corroborate that (773! yay! - not to brag, but I'm still excited from the time I found out not long ago).  For whoever doesn't know, SAT = Scholastic Aptitude Test, and it tests your verbal and maths skills.

Actually nad, the use of the word 'great' in Dutch comes directly from its connotative meaning in the English language. Unless it is used to mean something along the lines of great-grandfather, great always has a positive connotation, something which very well cannot be applied to Hitler.

p.s: Go correct your own English, nad, before you correct mine.

[Hmoll]

Ed,

You're back-pedaling again.
You said Hitler is an angel compared to Maksim, and then used a specific definition of the word "angel" as someone who financially underwrites a venture. Since financial backing/underwriting had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion previously, I - and others most likely - don't believe you when you say that is the definition of Angel you were thinking of.
You have a reputation for not admitting when you make mistakes or misspeak, and using Googled definitions to back up your arguments.
A wise person knows, and admits when he has made a mistake. You've a bit to learn.

To everyone else who continues to discuss,  as if it's some sort of high school dabate topic, the "greatness" of one of the worst dictators in history - whose leadership skills amounted to intimidation, murder, and imprisonment, was instrumental in initiating one of the most horrific wars in history while having little military ability himself, was (and is)  universally reviled, and whose legacy is a cowardly self inflicted bullet in the head while hiding in an underground bunker rather than facing the music - you should either exhibit some sensitivity to other forum members who have had lives affected by what happened back in the "great one's" day. Otherwise you should change the subject. It is needling, and unbecoming. Plus, none of you seem to know what you are talking about.

I'm with Bernhard. Take the topic back to piano and pianists.

(Sheesh!)

[nad]

Actually nad, don't include me in your 'we'. I am not Dutch, I am Israeli and I just live here in Holland and because of that I also speak Dutch.

Actually nad

Go correct your own English, nad,

First of all, don't belittle me like that. I only wanted to make something clear in a polite manner. Obviously you're offended again. What a fragile mind you have. Everyone who has a different opinion than yours must be wrong and less worthy considering the way you have addressed to me now. It clearly says enough about your immature character.

Unless it is used to mean something along the lines of great-grandfather, great always has a positive connotation

Who is as stubborn as a mule here?


Ps you're talking about a VERBAL sat... Which by the way says evidently nothing about your vocabulary since it is clearly lacking in knowledge.

If you're planning on continuing your silly 'great means positive per definition'-debate (for which you should start a new thread) I'll no longer waste my time on you and rather put you in the Maksim category (meaning: you're a muppet).
By doing that I allow you to maintain a certain level of dignity. (Noticed that level is a singular noun btw?)

Not that you offend me, au contraire. I always enjoyed the Muppet-show.

[ayahav]

You are completely wrong in thinking that my intention was to belittle you. I was merely making the point that since English is my strongest language, it is not for your to try and correct me. And since you brought it up, SAT's do apply here, since verbal scores testify to one's knowledge of vocabulary, and to one's knowledge of the meaning of words, which is partially what is being debated.

Secondly, you'll find that by reading the previous posts, I was very willing to settle somewhere in the middle (between the two extreme sides of the spectrum of this topic) , but I will not ever agree to calling Hitler a GREAT man... That is insolent beyond belief and absolutely inconsiderate.

Again, it is hardly for you to say that I have a 'fragile mind' (which is not an expression in English - we say that someone is sensitive or vulnerable), as you seem to have been offended by reading in between the lines. Hence, I'm sorry if I have offended you, but again - a person whose native language is not English, is NOT in a position to correct mine.

[comme_le_vent]

cant we all just live and let die?

[nad]

Not that you offend me

Who else thinks Michelangeli was a goodlooking pianist? I think so

[Hmoll]

He certainly was.

[nad]

How about this pianist?

[faulty_damper]

OH MY EYES!  MY EYES!  I'VE NOW been tAINTED, MY EYES!

That's the ugliest pianist in the world if he can even play the piano!