Adult students...........arrgggggg!!!!!!!!

[thaicheow]

Hi,
Don't know why? Currently having a lot of new adult students.

You see, instead of teaching privately, I also teach in music schools. I have been alsways given with adult students, whom usually other teachers dun want to take.

Just feel lethargic facing these students. Mostly stubburn minded, demanding, and lasck of ability to play, not to mention the lack of agility, quick response, nor the dexterity. But yet some dream of being able to play like Richard Clayderman withing weeks.

Currently got one. Very headache. Demand me to teach him Fur Elise after just a few sessions. Before that I have been doing some easy pop songs and church songs. Though a churchgoer he is, he just act repulsive to whatever I gave him. So I teach him Fur Elise, simplified version. Before we are able to finish that, he is asking to do Ballade pour adeline.

Almost cant bear with him. I ask him to do the Fur Elise properly first, b4 we move forward to another songs.

The thing is, I feel lousy by teaching such prominent pieces like Fur Elise in its simplified version. I feel it is an insult to the composer, and somewhat feel like it is a rape to the original work by the composer. I usually insist in waiting the student to grow until certain extend when I feel he/she is ready for the full version of that songs.

Simply giving up with adult students. Gosh, how I wish I can reject taking adult students. The thing is teaching in school, I cant choose much. Grrrrr, hate my boss so much....

Just teach for the sake of money. Who cares........

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Although I am a piano student(teenager), I can see how impatient and irascible adult students can create an imboglio in teaching. I say that you explicitly explain to them the situation and if the are appatent about learning, then they will stay, if not, than it is easier for you. I know how you feel. Hope this helps.

[pianistimo]

i usually go by the method books and don't allow them to play anything else for the first few months to year (depending on how they are progressing).  students shouldn't be the ones to decide if they are ready for something - even though they think they are.  really, it is your decision always- what you are willing to teach them according to what level you think they are at.  simply say - 'you are not quite ready for that yet' (to play the entire piece and to play the real version).  hold out for the real version with middle section and all - beause you know they can handle it later.

the first few years of my college piano lessons i became much more disciplined.  i had no idea how 'fly by night' some of my own practice had become.  i was not used to 'being in training' toward piano performance.  simply playing for fun and didn't work hard enough.  when i saw how much work it was - it did motivate me to play more because i saw the improvements in my playing.  i started trusting my teacher.  trust is very important.  if they just see a 'half-baked' song they've finished - they'll blame it on you (as you said)...so much better to help them realize a higher level of playing and performing. 

imo, treat them as older (by giving more work), but keep in mind they are pretty much like the younger students and need a step-by-step approach (not skipping anything) - no matter how many years they said they have had piano lessons.  for one thing, you don't know what steps might have been skipped over by a previous teacher.  this way - you systematically check what you feel is appropriate for that level before going on to the next level.  sight reading is OFTEN lacking.  or, if they can sight read - they may need an intermediate piece that is helping their dexterity and technique.  or, they may not understand keys and scales and how to learn and remember them (and note them before they begin playing). 

perhaps it's a tenuous situation right now, but you can change things to be in your favor.  if they quit - that's their own stubbornness.  no loss to you.

[goose]

I'm assuming this whole thread is a wind-up. If so, very funny.

[dorfmouse]

Grrrr ...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet another adult-bashing thread. Do you just want to bleat or are you looking for help? This topic has been raised many times on the forum and a quick search under teaching adults will instantly throw up many insightful, practical and inspiring ways of dealing with the “problem”. Or could it be that part of the problem is your own attitude and expectations?

Just feel lethargic facing these students

Speaks for itself.

stubburn minded, demanding

Maybe this means they have goals and dreams. Teacher's job is to put them on a realistic pathway for that never ending journey.

lasck of ability to play,

Oh! They're coming to a music school for lessons, right?

not to mention the lack of agility, quick response, nor the dexterity

Hmm, seems to me they need a teacher to teach them technique ....

Obviously you are going to face some people who just won’t be told, but that goes for child students as much as adults.  How often do we read teachers’ complaints about their bad attitudes, not practising etc etc?  However nobody bats an eyelid if little Susie takes a year to play 2 lines of "Twinkle Twinkle" hands together, no, they are applauded as some sort of genius when they finally manage it!

Maybe these threads might give you some much-needed motivation ….or stop taking the peoples’ money.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,11617.msg121717.html#msg121717 (Bernhard’s reply)
https://www.musicalfossils.com/

Or read the adult learners’ forums over on Pianoworld or on the ABRSM forums.

[amanfang]

Adults take for a variety of reasons.  You cannot "not let them play" what they've always wanted to play simply because they will not reach the artistic level that you think they should.  It's highly unlikely that they will be playing at any concerts or such.  It will mostly be in the privacy of their own home, occasionally for family or friends.  It's OK to give them simplified music.  Why should you keep great music from them that like just because they don't have the technique for it?  Improve what can be improved, and let them enjoy lessons.

[soleil_nuage]

I am the DREADED adult student.     I wonder if I can make this into a Halloween costume.

I think that you have to adjust their expectations. As Dorfmouse pointed out, you have to tell them what is realistic. When I started, I had no idea how long and how much work it takes to become proficient at piano.  I understand now but I didn't when I first started. 

It is just that since we are the ones paying money for lessons, we want to see results fairly soon.  There is also social pressure at play.  Friends and family wonder why you are spending so much time and money and have little to show for it.  It is only when you play commonly-known music like Fur Elise that non-musicians see the benefit of your efforts. 

So please be patient.  And in the end, as you pointed out, if you want the money, you have to deal with it....

[dinosaurtales]

I am the DREADED adult student.     I wonder if I can make this into a Halloween costume.

I think that you have to adjust their expectations. As Dorfmouse pointed out, you have to tell them what is realistic. When I started, I had no idea how long and how much work it takes to become proficient at piano.  I understand now but I didn't when I first started. 

It is just that since we are the ones paying money for lessons, we want to see results fairly soon.  There is also social pressure at play.  Friends and family wonder why you are spending so much time and money and have little to show for it.  It is only when you play commonly-known music like Fur Elise that non-musicians see the benefit of your efforts. 

So please be patient.  And in the end, as you pointed out, if you want the money, you have to deal with it....

What he said.  My husband and I are two shining examples of the adult student phenomenon. I have always played, and am serious about it, so for me it was a matter of getting back into the routine of disciplined practice.  My husband was a beginner - textbook "demanding" one - he didn't want to spend a year playing the bear went over the mountain, so he went after the first movement of theMoonlight Sonata, and painstakingly learned it!  He also did the second movement of the Pathetique!  He played them well, too!  He now composes, and is really into the theory. 

I was told by many teacher taht they simply won't take adults. i just figure they are either too inexperienced to handle it, or their egos are too delicate to take the kinds of questions adults ask.  Frankly, we want to understand things - not just take direction like the little kids.  So I admire the teachers who teach adults regularly MUCH MORE than the ones who don't!

[gilad]

I'm adult beginner and have been playing for nearly a year. i went the method book root and finished it, then i started moonlight (edit-1st of course:), fur elise and a few other pieces because i wanted to play music. i can play both of them now, maybe not very well, but i'm working on it. with time constraints of course i still make the most of what ive got, and im always thinking about it and planning my next move all the time. recently i've started learning many simpler pieces like erik saties Gymnopedie no.1 and some works of numbers from schumans album for the young, a schubert walz and other material of a similar diffilculty level.
I figured that yes, i can play two very popular pieces of music, but from a learning point of view there are so many techniques i should be learning from a variety of easier pieces. i put a lot of consideration and effort into my constant improvement. My teacher even seemed pretty deisinterested in teaching me my first lesson, but i showed him:) and his whole attitude has changed. he serves me as a facilitator and coach, i choose all my pieces and he guides me through them,blablabla:) My point is that adult students do care a whole lot and are passionate about learning, of course not all succeed, and not all realise how much effort is required. no need to genralize, i'm sure that a part of your students failing is a self fulfilled prophecy.

[ada]

thaicheow - I think your complaints are more of a reflection on your failings as a teacher than any failings on the part of your students.

Adults mightn't be as good for your ego as kiddie prodigies but they have maturity, dedication, motivation and responsibility. And they learn because they want to, not because they are being made to to do so by an overbearing parent.

If I were an adult learning to play the piano for the first time I sure as hell wouldn't want to waste my money on lessons from you.

If that's your attitude you have a duty to be honest with your students and let them find someone better.

Do yourself  - and your poor adult students - a favour and recommend someone else for them.

[keyofc]

Too bad you don't live in my area.  Adult students are my favorite kind.  You could send them to me.
They are focused - not taking lessons because mommy makes them - and and goal-oriented.
Sure, they may jump ahead too quick - but their preferred repertoire saves me from having to hear Yankee Doodle and the Camptown Races.
Lighten up - if you live long enough - you'll be an adult too.

[pianowelsh]

I find adults most interesting.  Id happily trade my stroppy 16 year olds for them!!

[whynot]

I love my adult students!  As someone observed, adults will want to know all the "whys", whereas children sometimes only need the "how" (I'm only speaking generally; I do give both to everyone, but in differing proportions).  Being asked "why" all the time can come off as aggression or a challenge from the student, although I don't think it usually is.  They just need that extra information in order to do things. 

I wondered, do you enjoy teaching other ages or levels?  And you mentioned that you hate your boss.  Is that because this person assigns students to you that you wouldn't take otherwise, or are there other issues?  Hope I'm not asking too many questions, and I don't mean to pry; what I'm trying to get at is, would it work better for you to start a private studio in which you could choose the students personally, or would you prefer not to teach at all?  In which case, perhaps the creative people here on the forum could throw in suggestions of other ways to earn a living with your musical skills that you would find more satisfying. 

Best wishes.

[dnephi]

My teacher said
"No you can't play Rach 3.  Your technique and musical ability isn't good enough." . (16 yrs old)

[stevehopwood]

I successfully teach loads of adult students. They bring their own rewards.

Mind you, I am 54 and so am older than most of them, so they are inclined to respect my judgement about what is best for them.

They often reasons for learning that need accommodating. There might be certain pieces they have always wanted to learn. They might be taking lessons to understand what their children are doing. They might be realising a long-held dream to learn.

thaicheow, it sounds as though you would be best off not teaching them. They will not enjoy you if you cannot enjoy them.

Steve 

[thaicheow]

I have been trying to keep quiet all the while. Never expected my comments would stir up such a profound respond. Haven't come to this forum for a long while is another reason.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses. After just teaching for 3 years, I think I am still consider "green" in this field.

I do enjoy teaching some adults. I have an over 50-yr-old lady staying with me since I start up my teaching job. She has done her theory in Grade 5, and I have just let her take her grade 1 practical exam in ABRSM. She got 116, a good pass and very happy about that. Now I am doing some Anna Magdelena Bach with her. Though I also have a few unsuccessful teaching experience with some adults, whom mostly have stopped (some I just courteously ask them to stop as we cant see eyes to eyes).

This thing happens in teaching, or life. I was just being a bit pissed off by my students' attitude that day. And my boss has been underpaid me about 10% compare with market price since I start up with her. Welfare has not been taken care of, no bonus, no medical support. Once get ill and cant conduct a lesson, payment will be deducted, etc. Moreover with the continuos disturbance from her darling daughter, who has hated me all the while. All these added to my bad mood on that day.

I have been telling this particular adult student off, in a polite way. I am still teaching him, but has slowly convince him in his inadequency. I am doing a lot of 5 fingers excercise ( I design myself for my students), scales (HS, only C major so far), and I photocopied some children material (alfred, some japanese kiddy material) by hiding all those funny pictures. So that his self esteem wont be hurted. This one comes with ambition that doesn't match his ability, as he told me he wants to take exam too. Which I think wont happen within the next one year (with me).

I have read a lot. Thanks for the websites. I also come upon some articles by Frances Clark ( a padegogist, who had written in a music magazine column for a long while by answering questions posted by piano teachers in US. Hope I do not spell her name wrongly), and have been more insightful on teaching adults.

I insist in doing 5 fingers excercises with all my students, though some have complained in its "stupidity", and boreness. Very simple excercise I design to target the weakness usually happen in piano playing. They have to do my 5 finger excercise before they move forward to Hanon, Czerny, scales, studies, simple etudes etc. Technical training consists a large part of my teaching nowaday. Of course I do love to teach more repertoires. But I have to give them the facility they need b4 they move to conquer interesting pieces. The more excercieses they do, you can see apparent improvement in their playing.

I don't agree with my boss (who is teacher herslef too), as she always like to do flashy pop leisure with her students. I relieve for her once awhile, and can't imagine her students couldn't even do the scales required fluently just a few months b4 the exam! 

I get a lot of adult enquiries lately. Just did a trial with a retiree, taught him Twinkle twinkle little star. The truth is that most of the teachers in the school don't treasure adult students and I end up getting them.  As with the school, I definitely will leave that school one day. But right now, I don't think I have enough resource to do that. I am still doing my diploma, and I think I will negotiate with her after I get the certificate. As my own private starts up, I think I surely can stand on my own feet one day. 

Thank you again for all the advice. My apology if I have offended anyone.

Take care, and have a good life. 

[andric_s]

I feel your pain.  I taught at a music school for a few years, too.  They pretty much always underpay you at these places.  You can't choose your students.  Yeah, it's rough.

But I learned alot doing that.  After I left the school I had the confidence to build a thriving private practice, and to charge more than twice what I was making at the school.  Now I'm turning away students because my schedule is full!

I like adult students because you can hold them responsible for their actions (like practice habits).  If they don't practice, I don't have act like a disciplinarian-- I just say "that needs more work" and that's that.  If they don't progress, it can be annoying, but with adult students I feel my goal is to help them enrich their lives through music, whereas with a child i feel the responsibility to train them into being a capable musician.

[pianoandviolin]

Currently got one. Very headache. Demand me to teach him Fur Elise after just a few sessions. Before that I have been doing some easy pop songs and church songs. Though a churchgoer he is, he just act repulsive to whatever I gave him. So I teach him Fur Elise, simplified version. Before we are able to finish that, he is asking to do Ballade pour adeline.

Hm, can't give this student to another teacher, can you?

I am an adult learning the piano and my first teacher never asked me what I wanted and told me how we'd go about things. Besides encouraging me to look at my hands frequently, he gave me all sorts of easy-versions of Fur Elise and such, told me that there's no benefit to spend time on scales etc ..... I was very unhappy with the situation and felt that I didn't learn much.

Have a new teacher now and we go about it the "convervative" way. Practically had to start all over again. Took me a few weeks to switch to playing without ever looking at my hands, got to learn the scales and chords, and do the pieces looking at each detail. I don't advance at the pace I'd love to, but then I don't want to progress at the expenses of playing things right. I'm also aware that I cannot force progress by regular and long practice but that my practice, besides my teacher being great in showing me everything, is THE tool to bring me to my goal.

Although, having started a 44 year-old, it's unlikely I'll be a concert pianist, I practice and look to detail as if it were possible. Will take one step at a time and see where I'll get. to do that I have to make the time for regular practice - no matter how good the excuse for lack of practice, no practice is no practice.

Regarding pieces, my teacher knows my likes and he has that in mind when suggesting pieces. I usually see that I learn all the pieces he suggests as I've noticed with each of them I learn new basic skills which I will need for more demanding pieces.

Of course, it's difficult to say how fast I progress as I lack comparison, and I understand it takes longer to play a piece really well than just fairly ok, but I understand from my teacher that for him, its rather the kids and teens who don't spend enough time practicing because school, sports or else have higher priorities, or it's their parents more than them who want them to learn the piano.

[quasimodo]

Adults suck, Muhahahaha!
I know that for sure, I'm one

[princess_moose]

I teach one adult student and I love it. No, she doesn't practice as much as other students would because of lack of time, but I can deal with it. You really shouldn't be teaching adults if you can't understand that their needs are different to younger pupils.

[timland]

As an adult I've had some bad experiences with teachers not taking a serious interest in trying to teach me anything. It's like they just wanted to let me do anything just to waste time while they collected my money.
A few years ago when I was 29 I started taking lessons at a local respected music school. At the first lesson I played Bach's 1st Invention which I attempted to learn on my own. The "teacher" told me it was a mess. ( which it was ). Instead of telling what was wrong with it and what to do about it she had me start Chopin's A flat Ballade. I spent 2 months on it with absolutely no advice on how to practice. She wanted me to perform it in a recital but I refused because I knew it wasn't very good. I quit not too long after that.
I've had similar experience with 2 other "teachers". Since then I've made a lot of progress on my own thanks in part to this web site. I still would like to take lessons some day but as long as I'm making good progress on my own I'm not willing to risk wasting time in another bad situation.

[stevehopwood]

As an adult I've had some bad experiences with teachers not taking a serious interest in trying to teach me anything. It's like they just wanted to let me do anything just to waste time while they collected my money.
A few years ago when I was 29 I started taking lessons at a local respected music school. At the first lesson I played Bach's 1st Invention which I attempted to learn on my own. The "teacher" told me it was a mess. ( which it was ). Instead of telling what was wrong with it and what to do about it she had me start Chopin's A flat Ballade.

Yes, well only an idiot would take a student unable to play the C major Invention and put him\her onto a Chopin Ballade.

The art is in finding a teacher that actually knows the subject - not guaranteed in a world where any idiot can set up as a private teacher.

You need to take the same care over finding a teacher for yourself that you would if you were finding one for you own children, if\when this is relevant. The secret is to find others who already take lessons and find out how good their teachers are. From this, you can find a good one, given some luck.

A good teacher will help you work wonders with your playing. A poor one is just a wast of money, but you hardly need telling the last bit 

Steve 

[ivoryplayer_amf]

it sounds as if you werent firm enough with the first lesson.  The student has to know who the professional is and who the student is.  YOu need to lay down the law...

"You are going to do things my way until I determine that you are ready to adventure on your own and request a song to learn.  I am the professional and I know waht is best for you.  YOu are not ready for "so and so" piece but if you want to play it, here is what we can do to work TOWARDS it!"

its all about your approach from the beginning.  I believe in being hard at first, and letting up as I see that my students allow.