Help on Rachmaninoff Prelude C# Minor

[EAP_Ravem]

I just printed off a copy of Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# Minor and it took me about five minutes to realise that the highest notes in the bass clef are higher than the lowest in the treble. Are you supposed to cross the thumbs or just play it the easy way? I'm pretty sure you're just supposed to cross the thumbs, but that just seems like you wind up making the piece harder than it needs to be. It's gonna be hard enough as it is.

[Wired]

Cross 'em. It actually is easier this way, in my opinion.

[tumababa]

I was actually confused by this as well so I started playing without crossing the thumbs.  It seemed to go easeir for me after that and I fail to see how crossing your thumbs could make the piece easier.

[Wired]

Well, for one, you can actually read the music as it's written. Secondly, the hands stay in the exact same shape for each chord. This means that you focus on moving the hands rather than on making a new shape with your hand and moving it also.

It just makes the hands feel more fluid in their motion. I really can't fathom learning it the other way.. the chords would seem all awkward to me, having to play them in all different positions. This technique keeps my hands in almost the exact same shape, and I only have to move them. This lack of extra movement also allows the pinky to always be the top note, which is supposed to be the melody. Using the same finger for each note in the melody in each chord makes the amount it comes out be more consistent as well.

However, all of these things are much easier heard while watching than trying to read my ramblings here. Sadly, I don't know how to help you out with finding someone to watch play it.

But really, it doesn't take that long to get used to the movements of the hands. Just try it for a while each day for a week, and you'll be surprised how quickly it comes. And I assure you, you will be happier with the end results.

[eddie92099]

I was actually confused by this as well so I started playing without crossing the thumbs.  It seemed to go easeir for me after that and I fail to see how crossing your thumbs could make the piece easier.

Did you ever consider the reasons why Rachmaninov notated it the way he did?
Ed

[tumababa]

I did actually.  Rachmaninoff was a very sensitive chap when it came to his music.  When his first symphony came out he was blasted by the critics and a period of depression followed.

Given that Rachmaninoff was very touchy about his music I assumed that the hands crossing was to mask the simplicity of the opening measures.  It's mostly parallel triads after all(With exceptions of course).  And the harmony? It's first year composition at any college you go to.

[guven]

You should cross them .

[eddie92099]

Given that Rachmaninoff was very touchy about his music I assumed that the hands crossing was to mask the simplicity of the opening measures.

. It is written how it should be played,
Ed

[tumababa]

Sorry Sergei....

[Daevren]

Ok this is probably the first piano piece I am learning.
I see how Rachs notating is more logical but it does create more tension in my hands.

How do I play with crossed thumbs when they are both on the black keys. They just get in each others way too much for my taste. What is the solotion here? Rach doesnt make an exeption here.

[Dave_2004_G]

Are you sure it's wise for the first piano piece you learn to be the rach c#minor prelude?  I don't mean to question your abilities but  the piece doesn't really seem suitable as a first piano piece!

Dave

[Daevren]

It doesn't seem that hard.

But I am open to recommendations.

[shatteringpulse]

I don't know about it being a first piano piece!  

Yes, perhaps the first section is easy, and maybe even the last section if your arms/fingers are strong and you have no problem with expansive leaps...but the middle? Come on, for a first piano piece?

I find it unbelievable you'd want to try the cascades of hammered chords at the end of the middle section--

225 notes in 9 seconds! That's 25 notes per second!

But good luck...this is the piece, of any piece, to make a huge technical leap with...you just have to work on that middle section over and over again until you no longer think--and find the pattern!

[shatteringpulse]

Not be harsh--it's a valiant goal...but maybe you'd consider some of Rachmaninoff's other works...(He's my favorite, too!)...that are a tad easier, technically, but nothing is easy musically...

Elegie in E-flat Minor, from the same set
F# Prelude op. 23, no. 1
G-Flat Prelude op. 23, no. 10
Even the B-flat minor or b minor ones from op. 32(but those are some of hte most musically difficult because of their absolute "sublimity" and the obsessive rhythms!)

Good luck!

[Daevren]

I must agree that those fast chords look pretty challenging. I  think they will definitely be too hard, I must confess. I can play the beginning of the fast part but not that well. I am not in a hurry to learn something and then to play it to impress family friends whatever. I just, like you said, want to jump-start my piano technique. I am not really interested in easy music, I don't think I can name a really easy piano piece I like to listen to.

I guess I must add that piano isn't my main instrument. I already did that for years already(on guitar). If those chords are really too hard to even practice I will switch to another piece. I already achived a decent level of technicality on another instrument, I know what I am doing.

Also, I must add that Rachmaninoff isn't my favorite composer. That would be Scriabin I think. I do have the music of Scriabins sonatas, not for playing but analyses(as far as one can analyse later Scriabin, lol) so don't worry.

But if anyone has some other recommendations please post them because if I get stuck I will look at them and improve my technique practicing another piece.  I am here to be educated.

[Dave_2004_G]

hmm it's an interesting one, I can't think of any suggestions off hand I'm afraid, but I'd be careful with this piece if you want to 'jump start your technique' - when you get to the agitato section, I would certainly only play it slowly for a while and speed up very very gradually - if you bodge all the notes out in a passable version then it is likely that it could be more detrimental to your technique than good

Dave

[eddie92099]

Don't run before you can walk,
Ed

[Daevren]

I know you have to practice with 100% accuracy to get something fast.

[steinwaymodeld]

Cross them

it's written on the notes

also, it's for the chord sake and for the chords later on
you will get used to it, trust me.

and later in the part with all the chord running from the top

be careful of the accent of the Left right hand
it's kinda 'jazzy',
RH: TA,ti,ti-TA,ti,ti....
LH: ti,TA,ti-ti,TA,ti

ANd i have heard so many times people bang the shxt out of this piece... it's so wrong...

The first part of those big notes, except the beginning few bars(which indicate ff) all of them have to be play very very quiety with 2 theme, the low part is the main theme, the high part sound like the echo of the main part....

Good luck learning this piece. any more problem you can PM me.

[IgnazPaderewski]

Whatever you do, do NOT yield to tradition and play the bar of quavers (line two i think, i forget) without speeding up (as everybody does - not a gross generalization) as it is not written. I would pay good money to hear someone play what Rachmaninoff actually wrote in this piece - everything is in the score, he leaves nothing to confuse the interpreter.

[eddie92099]

I would pay good money to hear someone play what Rachmaninoff actually wrote in this piece

Then listen to Rachmaninov's own recording,
Ed

[Laurie_H]

Cross your thumbs. This is the first 'serious' piece I played and it seems to me obvious that that is how you play it cos then you're playing octaves and it's much easier to bring out the melody.

[Laurie_H]

You would pay good money to hear it how he wrote it, eh? Well I've heard a recording of him playing it and it's not how it's written. The first page is 'lento' ok, slow - but not when he plays it. By far the best pianist playing his stuff is Howard Shelley.

Don't get me wrong, Rachmaninoff's playing is phenominal, and the way he brings out inner melodies is very unique. But his playing is also very dated and rushed.

[steinwaymodeld]

You would pay good money to hear it how he wrote it, eh? Well I've heard a recording of him playing it and it's not how it's written. The first page is 'lento' ok, slow - but not when he plays it. By far the best pianist playing his stuff is Howard Shelley.

Don't get me wrong, Rachmaninoff's playing is phenominal, and the way he brings out inner melodies is very unique. But his playing is also very dated and rushed.

is it because back then the recording technology(the vinyl) limited the time for the whole recording?