how many years..to learn..?

[dreamsofpiano]

I realize it has much to do with individual skill/dedication, but on average, say if you practice for two hours a day, an hour for scales and an hour for the actual piece itself or similar rigorous daily practice, how many years would it take for you to attain the level of play of say, a piece like moonlight sonata? 5 yrs, 7 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs..? I played violin for 5 years, but stopped, because the violin is an endlessly frustrating instrument that I enjoyed, but maybe not enough. Anyway, I'm 19 years old now and I've wanted to learn the piano for as long as I can remember, but my parents could never afford piano lessons. Now I am a university student but am graduating in 1.5 years, after which I'd like to take up piano in my spare time. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this and what it takes to really learn the piano. Thank you.

[Tash]

apparently there's studies saying that generally to get your Amus (aussie diploma grade) you need to have practiced for a total of 10 000 hrs or something, which is like an average of 3hrs per day for 10yrs (i think that's right). but anyway, the moonlight sonata, are we only talking about the 1st movement? cos that's like grade 6 or something. but it's really dependant upon the person, if you can already read music and stuff then you'll save a lot of time. and then there's some people around here who say they've been playing for 6 months and can play the fantasie impromptu. so i really have no idea. i'm sure someone else here will have a better answer than mine!!

[jlh]

First of all, you don't need to spend HALF your practice time on scales.  Keep the ratio to about 10-15% and you'll be better on track.

It really does depend on the person.  If you're only talking about the first movement, you might be able to get the basics down in a year if you're a fast learner.  If you're talking about the whole sonata, well, if you're asking about that, then you're not ready to learn it -- try again in a few years.

[dreamsofpiano]

Thanks for replying. Well, I mean not the Moonlight Sonata per se, but how many years would it take to play skillfully a piece that is at the level of that piece? A few years you say?

[emmdoubleew]

I realize it has much to do with individual skill/dedication, but on average, say if you practice for two hours a day, an hour for scales and an hour for the actual piece itself or similar rigorous daily practice, how many years would it take for you to attain the level of play of say, a piece like moonlight sonata? 5 yrs, 7 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs..? I played violin for 5 years, but stopped, because the violin is an endlessly frustrating instrument that I enjoyed, but maybe not enough. Anyway, I'm 19 years old now and I've wanted to learn the piano for as long as I can remember, but my parents could never afford piano lessons. Now I am a university student but am graduating in 1.5 years, after which I'd like to take up piano in my spare time. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this and what it takes to really learn the piano. Thank you.

If you really practice 2 hours a day EVERYDAY, 1 year for the first movement and 3 more for the last I would say is a good estimate.

However, pracitcing 2 hours a day is more than you may think for a hobby.

[Tash]

yeah...if you START from the beginning practicing 2 hrs, you'll probably rise up very quickly and just blitz your way through the easy pieces. man 2 hrs- if i practiced my flute that long, man my parents and neighbours would be ready to shoot me- 2 hrs of the same 3 notes, over and over again hahahahahaha i'm almost tempted to do it!

[steve jones]

Iv played for just 15 months, practicing usually an hour a day (broke up into two or three sessions). I had previous musical experience.

I can play  (or are learning to play with a view to mastering):

- Mozart K570 (last movement)
- Chopin Preludes 4, 20, 6, 9
- Bach Inventions 1, 8, 4
- Beethoven Op49 (first movements), Moonlight Mvt 1


Im not sure, but I think is probably about average for a serious hobby student on my age (24 yrs) and past experience.

So if you are hoping to learn the first movment of the Moonlight Sonata, I believe it could be achieved in a year, given the right preparation pieces. Its actually not difficult technically, but I personally have a hard time seperating the voices in the RH. Im getting better at this since practicing the Chopin though.

3rd movement is rough though. If you want to play this is demands that you develop technically to a pretty high level. So really, the time it would take would depend totally on you and you practice regime. Some might be able to handle it after 3yrs, some wont after 10.

Incidentally, I dont believe that any student of 6 months could play FI to even an acceptable standard. Im pretty sure that even todays super virtuoso's like Kissin weren't that advanced within such a short time. Take any claims like that with a very hefty pinch of salt!

SJ

[alwaystheangel]

Wow, it takes my students a year to get through prliminary (they are 6 years old though) I learned Moonlight last year, It is a grade 8 piece (1 movement) in Canada, I probably could have learned it earlier but I was just following my levels.  Be careful not to burn out.

[yamaha2006]

Are you kidding or joking?

3 years to play the moonlight sonata as a whole !!!

The third movement is extremely difficult !! I mean if you would like to play it very well at the correct rythm !!! with all the nuances !!

I think everyones must go for easier pieces first and rise up not quickly !!!
10 years, yes it's enough to play this sonata correctly is you have never play an instrument!!!
5/7 years if you have ever played !!!

Do not keep in mind what these people tell you, it's false to think that a Beethoven Sonata can be played in 3 years !!! It's a real joke !
Mozart, ok but not Beethoven...and even Mozart needs skills and some sonatas are not so easy !

Regards

[pianowelsh]

Spend the time looking at scale construction before playing them.  if you understand how they work and study the fingering and scale patterns before you start playing them you will find that you dont actually have to spend that much time on them. It depends on your learn rate - if you are doing a degree your obviously not dumb and therefore are also at a very receptive age and if you are conscientious I see no reason why progress couldnt be quite quick. I have reccently taken a lady in her mid 30's on and she has gone form total beginner to circa grade 2 level (theory and practical) in about 3 months SO its really up to how much effort you want to put in.  I would recomend you find a local teacher who isnt too high powered who has the patience to talk through everything as you go.  I find that when I teach adults we spend a lot more time in dialogue because e are able to reason through things and I can plant concepts that the student can work at independently - so have  a good looka around and have some consultation lessons.

[buebo]

Depends on a lot of things, but one in peticular is past music experience I think. I've started playing piano and taking lessons weekly since januari (I first started goofing around on the piano in december). So I'm really new to the instrument and have so much to learn it's scary! Nontheless I've been playing guitar for about 8 years already and play the drums as well. This experience helped me tremendously for piano. I finished that famous bagatelle by Beethoven (fur elize I know, I know), Mozart sonata k.545 1st mov, and finishing up (working on my interpretation which is imo a lot more work and complex than just learning to play the notes in the right time) on Raindrop Prelude (#15) by Chopin. Made a start on waltz op. 64 no. 2 (C# minor) this week. So these pieces are quite challenging for me, but I know how I want them to sound and especially how I DONT want them to sound.
I don't want to sound like I'm bragging and realize I'm far from being a proper pianist. Anyways I'm happy with my progress, and I know that without a good dose of drive and past experience I wouldn't be able to play these things.
To sum it up: with experience your progress will probably be quite a lot faster, but you still need the drive to practice on a regular base.

Good luck, and greets, Buebo.

PS: first post

[jas]

Thanks for replying. Well, I mean not the Moonlight Sonata per se, but how many years would it take to play skillfully a piece that is at the level of that piece? A few years you say?

I would say 6 years at the very least, if we're talking about realistic amounts of practice, and the fact that you will have to take detours via other pieces and composers, too. And you won't just get better continually from the moment you start playing, all the way up to Moonlight Sonata level; as you advance it takes more time to master pieces and techniques. The Moonlight is dipABRSM level in the UK (that's the first post-gd 8 diploma), which anyone will tell you isn't doable in a couple of years! But, as someone said, if you played the violin you have an advantage already.

But I'd advise against learning the piano just to get to that level. There are pieces of all levels that are brilliant, not just stopgaps. The pieces Steve Jones listed are fairly easy but they're great pieces all the same. You should just play it and enjoy it for what you're doing rather than looking at everything as a means to an end.

There are a number of threads about easy pieces, if you do a search. If you decide to take up the piano, good luck and enjoy! But don't think of it as a race to the hardest piece because you'll taint your enjoyment of some great music of you do.

Jas

[pagim]

3 years is enough to play every sonata, except the Sorabji's one, especcially the mozart's one cause most of them are just technical practise with lively emotion, just small amout of those are emotional.

It took me 2 and a half year from the start to play all Beethoven's Sonata, Moonlight one(Op.27 No.2) is pretty easy going piece with feelings and sentimental in first movement, a gallop lovely music in the 2nd mvt., and Dramatic and technically with emotions and expressions, overall is not hard.
I found the hardest of all sonatas(not Sorabji's Crazy sonatas) are Op.106, 109, 110 and 111 by Beethoven.  and for concerts i've played I played only Beethoven and Liszt.

[jas]

3 years is enough to play every sonata, except the Sorabji's one, especcially the mozart's one cause most of them are just technical practise with lively emotion, just small amout of those are emotional.

Three years isn't enough if you want to get a solid pianistic education out of it, as you prove by what you say about Mozart's sonatas being "technical practise". If you focus on one piece and one alone you're not allowing yourself to become a "pianist". You'll just be a sort of idiot savant pianist.

It took me 2 and a half year from the start to play all Beethoven's Sonata, Moonlight one(Op.27 No.2) is pretty easy going piece with feelings and sentimental in first movement, a gallop lovely music in the 2nd mvt., and Dramatic and technically with emotions and expressions, overall is not hard.
I found the hardest of all sonatas(not Sorabji's Crazy sonatas) are Op.106, 109, 110 and 111 by Beethoven.  and for concerts i've played I played only Beethoven and Liszt.

So presumably that's because you can't play Bach/Mozart/Chopin/whoever else, because you just bypassed them altogether and went straight for the Beethoven? If you want to learn the piano that way and it works for you, fine, but if dreamsofpiano wants more than a handful of pieces in his repertoire s/he'd be better taking a bit more time about it to learn a varied repertoire. It'll be better for his/her technique and musicality.

Jas

[yamaha2006]

I totally agree with Jas.

welle said !!

[tac-tics]

If you were Chuck Norris, you could learn the piano in an hour. Less than that even.

People talk about how long it takes to get to what level and how good you are in respect to the time you've been playing, but the truth is it doesn't matter how long you've been playing at all. It matters how good you are. If it takes you a lifetime to get to the level you're happy with, what's the problem in that? (as long as you enjoy it).

If you take up piano, you should take it up because you enjoy the process of learning how to play it and not because you want to play a few classical songs you like.