Wrong notes, how to eliminate them

[kghayesh]

I am having a problem with wrong notes !! I think i can capture the mood of the piece and play it with right dynamics ....etc. But, most of the time i get some wrong notes here and there.

I don't know but are there any recipes to eliminate this undesired thing ?

[mike_lang]

Fleisher suggests playing looking away from the keyboard or with one's eyes shut, as it forces one to have greater accuracy.

[krittyot]

"After one of Cortot's concerts in Brescia, Cortot is reported to have played some wrong notes. When Benedetti Michelangeli went and visited him in the backstage, Cortot pretended to scold his right hand with a slap. Then Benedetti Michelangeli made the opposite gesture, hitting his left hand with his right."

[thorn]

"After one of Cortot's concerts in Brescia, Cortot is reported to have played some wrong notes. When Benedetti Michelangeli went and visited him in the backstage, Cortot pretended to scold his right hand with a slap. Then Benedetti Michelangeli made the opposite gesture, hitting his left hand with his right."

how funny 

i tend to go back over any bars where i spotted wrong notes, and alter them, but play the right note accented so it really stands out from the rest... no idea of the logic behind it, but it works for me

[jlh]

how funny 

i tend to go back over any bars where i spotted wrong notes, and alter them, but play the right note accented so it really stands out from the rest... no idea of the logic behind it, but it works for me

not a bad idea...

[pizno]

Yes, you too can eliminate wrong notes!  Identify the errant notes, and practice very slowly.  Play the measure or two before the note, and when you get to the note, play it correctly and stop.  Repeat 1,000 times.  OK, maybe just 7.

Make sure you have touched the key you are going to play, before you play it.  Get there first, touch and then play.  If you are traveling a distance over the keyboard, do a blind practice.  Make the leap, then position your hand as if you are going to play, but freeze.  Look at your hand.  Is it positioned correctly to play the notes accurately?  Repeat this many times, until your hand is correct.

Also, practice by blocking, practice inside out and upside down, and practice standing on your head.

That's my bit of advice, from one who also battles wrong notes constantly.  But then, who doesn't?

[steveie986]

There are no wrong notes. All mistakes can be turned into strokes of brilliance if you play them loudly and flamboyantly.

- a friend of mine

[invictious]

It is art, there is no strict form, you do not necessarily have to abide by all those dots on the staves, why not add in a few more wrong notes intentionally and call it your work.

Well, then go play 20th works, they can't tell even if you are actualyl playing or bashing the piano/

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

Concerning wrong notes, it is very important to not practice wrong notes. When beginning a piece, learn as correct as possible in order to avoid relearning. Yes, practice slowly and with great accuracy, paying attention to the sound, that is that it is not all over the place. I at some point learned a certain passage one way, but had to re learn it. It was a pain, but needed to be done. It is good now and I don't remember what piece that was. So yes, practice slow and accurate, paying attention to the sound. Hope this helps.

[rc]

...If you've captured the mood and have it mostly right, why worry about a few random slips?

Now, if you're consistantly making mistakes in the same area, that needs to be practiced out. Or, it could also be a lack of focus in the moment, which is a matter of thinking ahead and not having anything stressing you out in the back of your mind.

[invictious]

...If you've captured the mood and have it mostly right, why worry about a few random slips?

Now, if you're consistantly making mistakes in the same area, that needs to be practiced out. Or, it could also be a lack of focus in the moment, which is a matter of thinking ahead and not having anything stressing you out in the back of your mind.

Yes I agree, i mean, look at Horowitz and his Chopin Ballade no.1!

[thorn]

There are no wrong notes. All mistakes can be turned into strokes of brilliance if you play them loudly and flamboyantly.

- a friend of mine

so true... although at the same time, all these concert pianists who play wrong notes or make mistakes could probably play the piece pretty much note perfect at some point.

it's like my A level music teacher kept saying to me whenever we were given Bach chorales and I'd always harmonise them Debussy style: "You have to learn the rules before you can break them".. (although in the case of chorales, i never followed that advice)

[nomis]

Have a look here: https://www.practicespot.com/article.phtml?id=13&t=19

[gyzzzmo]

Just as pizno said.
Practise the places where it went wrong over and over, slowly, so your brains get used to the correct notes as an automatism.
Thorns way of emphazising those notes forces your brains even more to learn it play  correctly.

gyzzzmo

[henrah]

This is all great advice, I'm glad I chose to read it
/me

[gruffalo]

Horowitz, when playing one phrase over 100 times in a row, was once asked "why are you playing this phrase so many times?" his reply being "i must be able to play this phrase whilst the house is burning down".

[kghayesh]

Yes I agree, i mean, look at Horowitz and his Chopin Ballade no.1!

What's wrong with Horowitz's Ballade no.1 ?

[rc]

Horowitz, when playing one phrase over 100 times in a row, was once asked "why are you playing this phrase so many times?" his reply being "i must be able to play this phrase whilst the house is burning down".

hahah, reminds me of the beginning of that movie 'The Pianist', were he's playing the recording studio while the building is collapsing around him. After the engineers have run for their lives, he grudgingly leaves the piano.

They did a good job of capturing what obsessed freaks we are .

[nervous_wreck]

you can't play wrong notes... ever, if you're having wrong notes you're either 1. not ready for the tempo or 2. you didn't take the time to read the music hands seperately very slowly from beginning, either way once youv'e got wrong notes you just have to use a cramming method and force the right ones into your head.

[mike_lang]

you can't play wrong notes... ever, if you're having wrong notes you're either 1. not ready for the tempo or 2. you didn't take the time to read the music hands seperately very slowly from beginning, either way once youv'e got wrong notes you just have to use a cramming method and force the right ones into your head.

Remember that there is a difference between playing wrong notes and missing notes/hitting cracks.  To not make mistakes is unavoidable, but to learn the wrong notes is of course inexcusable.

[alwaystheangel]

no one's perfect.  I think kghayesh  wants help fixing their mistakes not a scolding about how inexcusable his/her flubs are. Mistakes happen no one is perfect.  I personally find that playing the measure slowly and correctly over and over again until I get it then picking up speed is thea best way to correct a mistake.

[mike_lang]

no one's perfect.  I think kghayesh  wants help fixing their mistakes not a scolding about how inexcusable his/her flubs are. Mistakes happen no one is perfect.  I personally find that playing the measure slowly and correctly over and over again until I get it then picking up speed is thea best way to correct a mistake.

Perhaps I used too strong a word.  I am not condemning mistakes; I am attempting to clarify another statement made by someone else, by distinguishing performance mistakes from learning something wrong.  Everyone makes mistakes, but some things are a matter of negligence in learning the score, and these are avoidable.

[alwaystheangel]

Perhaps I used too strong a word. I am not condemning mistakes; I am attempting to clarify another statement made by someone else, by distinguishing performance mistakes from learning something wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, but some things are a matter of negligence in learning the score, and these are avoidable.

true to a degree.

[nervous_wreck]

well from reading the post to me, it sounds to me as if this person has learned wrong notes (just by the verb tense used) so that was the impression i got, not performance mistakes... so as i said wrong notes are inexcusable.

[steve jones]

Have a look here: https://www.practicespot.com/article.phtml?id=13&t=19

That has to be some of the worst advice Iv ever heard (or read) in my entire life. Stopping when you make a mistake is the seal of death in my experience. Ofcourse, it is good to know when and where mistakes are being made so that these areas can be focused on later. But when you're actually playing, you need to work through a mistake and recover as quickly as possible.

 I mean, it wouldnt be very good to make a flub on stage and have to stop and start again. Atleast this is what I was always taught - the importance of being about to 'deal' with a mistake and minimise its impact on the fly!

Personally, I prefer to slow the passage down and the cycle through it. If it looks more like be a technical difficiency thats causing the problem, then I'll give the passage some HS speed work. This usually does the trick pretty well.

SJ

[nervous_wreck]

^ the guy before me is right, that's very bad advice...

[bearzinthehood]

I don't think you read the tip completely, I don't think it's that bad of an idea at all.  Another way would be to record yourself playing mutiple times and mark up the beats that have mistakes.

[steve jones]

Absolutely, that sounds like a far better method.

Its not the theory that I object to, its the insistence on stopping at the mistake.

SJ

[kghayesh]

Guys, i think you didn't read it carefully.

He didn't say you stop everytime you play the piece. He said just play it like that for one time to figure out which parts you have problems and then play all these parts HS and slowly.
Try to think before you post

[nervous_wreck]

he said play it through several times and stop each time marking it up. what i don't like about that method, is you don't fix anything just get through it... 4 or 5 times and have a marked up piece and th en you have to go back through AGAIN! and stop at your first mistake, and fix it. why not just stop at your first mistake to begin with? and fix it right then and there, mark it of course, but don't go on. i find that he says to go on and keep playing very troublesome.

[pianowelsh]

What he says to do isnt wrong its just incomplete. You need to combine this kind of analysis with an appropriate remedy.  ie disect the problem ( a jump, a thumb turn etc) fix it in isolation then hand sep if necessary then small section together SLOW (preferably with eyes closed - you hear hesitations much more clearly!) then gradually eak up the tempo of the section then and oly when its perfect can you incorporate it into the grander scheme of things.  One of the biggest problems is we try to run before we can walk with pieces and thats how wrong notes creep in - we are all guilty! carefull learning from the start is the best means of obtaining accuracy - anything done later is much harder work to correct.  Sometimes I find playing one hand staccato and the other legato and then swapping helps with accuracy - particularly in notey passagio? With jumps Blocks is definately very helpfull to use (again blocks blindfolded or eyes closed is very effective) - I remember learning the Brahms Bmin rhapsody in this way several years ago.  Its hard but does pay off. Also for jumps you need to analyse too and know what your jumping too rather than sightreading it over and over again and only half knowing.  I sometimes get my students to talk through what they do from memory ie I jump to a eb maj chord second in version with an added 4th in bass register then down to an eb 8ve - below middle c etc etc etc.  Sometimes its helpful to rearrange over a smaller compass so instead of leaping the student will play a progression in the middle c region so they can get a feel for the harmonic movement without worrying about the contrary motion leaping!  Its also adviseable to 'prepare'  practice sometimes too - ie jump but dont play (or take a very slow overall tempo but move fast to the new position hover abouve the key and then play) move fast play slow method as I call it. Reducing the chords down when you are playing rapid/difficult chords also helps accuracy as if you get a clear and confident top an bottom to chords you feel more confident and the melody enables you to develop a sense of flow. Then take just the inside voices -(with the fingering you will eventually use with complete chord) and play individually so that you are aware of the filling you are putting in your sandwiches.  To chug through chords without really studying them is like making a sandwich in the dark you dont know if its really bread you buttered and you have no clue what you stuck in the middle - it may not taste good - if it does its a lucky break!  Often inaccuracy can be traced to jumping in either too soon or too late with the pedal too. Some pieces if yu jump in too soon (before you really know it) you use it to cover places which really need just a much better worked out fingering or a faster positioning of a chord etc which when at tempo and nearing performance can cause you to stumble or even to fall off altogether. If you leave pedalling to late there can be problems too with holding notes with the fingers which dont need to be held or ending up with a legato which when combined with the pedal is causing a lack of clarity and confusing your ear. This can be highly dangerous in performance.  It can also be most frustrating for the player as you may not be aware of tangible inaccuracies (all the fingers on the right notes) but the overall impression can be one of untidiness basically due to a lack of coordination between the foot ear and fingers.  SO do think carefully about the pedall - dont leave it to chance.

[lostinidlewonder]

Good advice all round, I might add my two cents. When my students play wrong notes IN THE SAME PLACE constantly I ask them to consider what note it is that is wrong first, then what group of notes is it attached to. Because the notes are never played one by one, but group by group. So when we have note errors it is because the exact shape that the group of notes create is not completely appreciated by your hand, the muscular memory is lacking.

So repetitive practice relating to the group of notes to correct a single note error. Think of the single note error not as an individual but a piece of a puzzle. You look at the entire puzzle (a group of notes) and you fit in the missing piece, then you must appreciate it as a whole, play the group over an over again considering how your hand feels when it plays the note you usually hit wrongly.

If note errors are random this is much more difficult to control. Often when I listen to my students play a piece they have been practicing I let them play through it once, then immediately play it again. This is so I can determine which note errors are repeated or which ones might be random. When they are random it is difficult to judge what to do because if you focus too much attention on a place which you only make mistakes rarely you will waste your time. In the case of random mistakes I tell a student to continue to play through a piece and put pencil markings on where note errors occur. If they do this for a week or so then they will see through the random nature of their errors and see where they are exactly failing.

[nervous_wreck]

i just don't think you should go on if you have a mistake, regardless if you're just going through to mark spots that have mistakes. jumps... they're a whoooole different ball game.

[nomis]

That has to be some of the worst advice Iv ever heard (or read) in my entire life. Stopping when you make a mistake is the seal of death in my experience. Ofcourse, it is good to know when and where mistakes are being made so that these areas can be focused on later. But when you're actually playing, you need to work through a mistake and recover as quickly as possible.

 I mean, it wouldnt be very good to make a flub on stage and have to stop and start again. Atleast this is what I was always taught - the importance of being about to 'deal' with a mistake and minimise its impact on the fly!

Personally, I prefer to slow the passage down and the cycle through it. If it looks more like be a technical difficiency thats causing the problem, then I'll give the passage some HS speed work. This usually does the trick pretty well.

SJ

The aim of that method is to find the spots that are technically shaky; it is not a method for practising performance.

[kolmogorov]

May be everybody knows, but it works for me...

Play the passage forte or mf, legato if you can, at the CENTER of the keys, and till the  keybed, feeling really ground. Do not concentrate in music at this stage, but in the physical feelings and movements (keybed and center key overall). At the beginning slow, then faster. Finally add dynamics staccato, and so on. Repeat each some days to ensure you do not forget the feeling.

[pizno]

I like the idea of F.I.N, or Fix it now!!  Instead of playing the piece with the wrong notes over and over, stop and fix the darn thing.

Also, I have been working on the Gigue of the 5th Bach Partita.  I have been going over it s..l....o...w...y.... until I think I am going out of my mind.  This has been going on, off and on (I'm working on several other things at the same time) for months.  I finally realized I'm in a rut.  What I need to do is take small sections and speed it up.  That seems to help solidify the feeling in my hands.  Of course, I run into bloops, so I slow it down again, and as soon as I think I've fixed it, I'll try that passage at a faster tempo.  At least that's today's approach! 

Pizno
(By the way Gyyyzmo - we rhyme)

[pizno]

I was just practicing and doing my usual bit of  daydreaming and playing wrong notes.  We have forgotten an important element in this discussion, CONCENTRATION!  I find that when I get past the sight reading phase, and sort-of-but-not-really know the music, I stop reading ahead a measure.  I expect my fingers to know where to go, but they have different ideas.  If I concentrate and read ahead.  This sounds simple, but my guess is that this is a common problem.  This is a good reason not to practice when we are tired or not really focused.  We are just learning wrong notes.

Piz