How do you refer to the middle of a piece?

[ingagroznaya]

Today I told my newer male student, who took the place of my psychologist: " I am very impressed with your mid section!". He gave me absolutely terrifying look.

[ingagroznaya]

I'm positive he thought I was talking about his abdominal muscles.
Bernhard, how do you refer to the middle part when a piece is only 6 measures long?

[pianistimo]

that is the funniest thing i've heard all morning.  hate to call it a small development either.  ask bob.  he's very careful with his words.  maybe 'i really like that part' and point to it.  that way - when you point he can make sure and know which part your talking about.  hate to call it an arrested development.

[ingagroznaya]

Listen up, all of you, guys!
I read all this stuff you have to say and figured I should also act politically correct, as in "more professional". I have NEVER asked my students if I can actually touch them to show any techniques in the past, but after listening to you...I thought :" Umm, I'm definitely missing out on something important. I need to act more <up to date>."

This gentleman is my new student.  He never took lessons in the past.  So when the time came to be dealing with reflexes, I asked him with my sultry accent:" Do you mind being touched?".  It felt so awkward, I wanted to be done with this question as fast as I could. Naturally I did not expect "O, yes, I do mind". To my horror - there was NO ANSWER. There was silence. Hesitation. And then came such a vulnerable "...no", I wanted to die from embarrassment. I knew something went terribly wrong. Poor thing had no idea what on earth is going to happen NEXT. I could see it in his facial expression. He was ready for ANYTHING. I mean anything!

I'm not at all surprised by his reaction to "mid section".
You've got me in trouble!

[ingagroznaya]

Bob and Berhnard are too politically correct to be found!

[ingagroznaya]

Bob, Berhnard , Pianistimo you are all fired!!!

[pianistimo]

wait!  this is not donald trump speaking.  noone but donald can say that.

why did you fire us?  was it something we said?  you seem very proactive, but not as much as me.  i just touch them without asking.  but, only under the wrist.  it has sometimes been known to carry a slight shock (but that's probably fromt he carpet).  anyway, it is a harmless touch and lets me show them the tension that might be in the wrist area.  lately, though, i've found that you can express much through words - but now because of you i have to think longer and harder (can i say that) about what i say.

*i've also found that simply expressing a command "raise your arm up (moving to the side of the bench) - let it drop as you would naturally have it when you walk.  swing your arm a little.  feel the loose, relaxed feeling - then bring your hand up to the keyboard."  this doesn't require any touching at all - which is much better probably.

***this must be a serious problem for college teachers because mine started using a rolled up piece of music or newspaper.  you could use this rolled up music/paper technique - but it is more likely to offend a person that you don't want to touch them.  i mean - unless you are really wierd and have this really wierd look in your eye like you are obtaining pleasure from touching their wrist.

[Bob]

I still go with never touching a student, esp if you said something awkward.  Who knows what they are thinking?

If you want to bend the rule.... You could use a pencil or something to touch the student.  Or use one finger as a pointer like a pencil. 

Or ask the student by telling what you will do.  "Do you mind if I just lower your wrist position?"

If you touch a student, you open yourself up to problems though.  I would avoid it as much as possible.

As a teacher, I think I should be able to explain and model whatever I need.  I think the student will also have to do whatever I'm teaching by themselves.  It's good to get them to understand, but they wil have to go home and figure it out anyway, so it's not necessarily bad if they have to control their body and do what you ask by themselves during the lesson. 

The students I've had who weren't able to understand what I meant just from my speaking and demonstrating are the ones who have trouble getting things anyway.  With those students, I don't think moving them physically will help much anyway.


To answer the original question, I would just keep talking.  If you say something that could be taken a different way, just keep talking and explain it another way.  If you're not a native English speaker, they will know this and know the point you're really talking about.  I would not let on that you were even aware of a different interpretation.  If you don't let on, then you are just that funny foreign person.  If you do let on that you know what you said, they might think you said it on purpose, esp if it happens more than once.

[pianistimo]

do tennis coaches get into trouble?  how does a person learn to golf or play pool? 

i'm into touching because i think it is a means of communication.  imo, it's a way to show people you care.  touching a person's hand or arm is quite different than giving them a prison pat down.  "hands on the piano'  - (looks for weapons). 

some things you have to show by doing, obviously.  so you sit down and play so they can see what you are doing - but sometimes - if you have practiced feeling your own arm - you can feel their wrist/tendons and then put their own hand there and they will feel the spots of tension.  or lift or lower the wrist.  i've never had anyone get mad at me.  and i feel that i don't overdo it.  usually just the first lesson or two and not so much after that.  hopefully, they get the idea of how it 'feels' to play in a relaxed manner.

[ingagroznaya]

Bob, Pianistimo - you are reinstated. I've had the most fascinating development, about which unfortunately I can not talk about here. Thank you so much for your help. Where is our tightlipped Berhnard?

[pianistimo]

i still say it was the 'sultry' voice and not the touch alone.  please don't get mad at me, but i can kind of imagine (after reading alistair hinton's blog that he supposedly didn'twrite) you teaching alistair.  he would have a stash of hands in one of the drawers nearby and ask you which one looked the most relaxed.  then, you'd feel them and flop them around a little.  sorry - i'm jsut thinking strangely tonight.  i think it was after reading alistair's blog.

[ingagroznaya]

It was "sultry" accent, not voice.
I do not think you're thinking strangely. This story does indeed sound a bit like alistair blog. This student of mine happened to be a very well known individual ( as I've learnt ), so I can't speak much to protect his privacy. What I found interesting is that a main subject of his past 30 years of work is - "duplicity". Not surprisingly, he is married to another psychologist. At the moment I don't feel, as I can handle another psychologist or another twisted issue related to a psychologist's famous husband whose main subject happened to be a duplicity. I have a recital coming up in a month and I don't know where to sit 150 relatives of my performers.
He is so nervous on my lessons, it makes me feel nervous in tern. Last time I've tired to show him how to play 9 measures song correctly, I have completely screwed it up. He laughs " it is contagious".
With all the stress overload, I'm seeing vivid dreams about having an affair with this student. And then of course, his psychologist wife steps in and offers me a therapy session. Ironically she is a family therapist.
 I just want to avoid to dream nonsense. I don't care how he reads me, as long as I am clear that midsection is the middle of the piece. I'm no longer sure though, Which Piece.  In any case, I'm still absolutely positive it is midsection. There is no psychologist on earth can convince me otherwise. Coz I'm not twisted like them, of course!

[Bob]

Just say "middle section"   or "middle section of the piece."

Just do your job, stay professional, and let the student worry about their own issues.  Keep yourself out of it.

(Bob is unsure what to think about ig again.)

[pianistimo]

middle section of the piece?  bob, you've got me in hysterics and i normally don't laugh about serious things like this.  i try to be all 'teacher teacher, business business...' but if you two were anywhere near my studio - i'd have to be on some kind of depressant. 

usually, it's the little four year olds that get you with a simple question - and not some grown-up, who's married to a psychologist and obviously taking lessons to analyze how you respond to his 'shyness.'  i'd use the shock treatment - and treat him really harshly for awhile.  you know, scowl.  turn away and then suddenly look back surprised.  just generally freak him out.  see how long you have to put up with his 150 relatives.  that will make scouring the neighborhood for a recital location less stressful.

[Bob]

What's so funny about "middle section?"

I wouldn't say he's "got" it.  I would say he "plays it" well.  "You play the middle section really well."  What's wrong with that?

Or call it the second theme or whatever it is.

You can't really say "You've got a nice..." anything.  It doesn't work.  Front section, middle section, end section.  "Hey... nice coda..."

I might even think they're talking about the printed music page. 

The student doesn't "have" it.  They "play" it.  Or they "have the ability" to play it. 

I reread the first two posts.  This is another spoof thread?  (Bob is sipped.)  A six measure piece?  I'm doubting Ig is real.  Probably Comme/Stevie again.  If people are wondering why forum quality is going down, this is why.   There's something fishy about this thread for sure.

[ingagroznaya]

This is another spoof thread?  (Bob is sipped.)  A six measure piece?  I'm doubting Ig is real.  Probably Comme/Stevie again.  If people are wondering why forum quality is going down, this is why.   There's something fishy about this thread for sure.

I did not know we must stick to scales only, while here, Bob.
I'm new.

[ingagroznaya]

Bob, you are being overly technical. I am more interested in female intuition, as I now suspect... there is something about this particular midsection we do not know ( if you know what I mean ). Just like you, my head likes to make things outa things.
We've got this strange dynamics from day one. I have already treated him harshly, thinking he'd not come back. I absolutely crushed his ego. I asked him for impossible and he came back furnishing it all. He does not come here to analyze my respond to his "shyness". He is not playing on recital. I think there is something to his midsection that we can't see. It could be a colostomy. What do we know? There was something that made him nearly jump out of that chair and it was not me.
In any case, I'd rather think it's colostomy. He is a nice guy and a wonderful student.  Let's close this subject, please.

[pianistimo]

female intuition?  you are more interested in female intuition.  ingogroznya - you are one and the same - the teacher and the student (and not sure if you are female if u are analayzing female intuition - unless you need a case study).  but, in actuality, this is very good - and you put yourself in your students shoes.  i try to do this before every lesson as well (seriously) because you want to make things appropriate for the age, level, etc.  i think a little fantasy once in a while is not harmful - (for me, it would be teaching my husband a lesson - hmmm wouldn't that be interesting).  but, if it spills over into the lesson - you may have to stop lengthening things and start shortening them.  sort of like a colostomy.  you have... oh nevermind.  anyway - yes.  the shorter lessons are usually more effective anyway.  they remember everything you said.  *also, this is why you should always have some artwork hanging in your studio - so the student can look at it - when words become few.  in fact, now that i think about it - i think i'll try a quiet lesson on somebody.  yes. piano lessons can be an experiment in psychology.  i wouldn't take this too far - either - though, because it's just not fair to have someone not pay for psychological treatment and get it for free from you.  hmmm.  just eat a sandwich when you are feeling - hmmm. stressed out.  unevenly balanced.  terribly affected fromt he previous night's dreams.  whatever.

*ingogroznya - exuse me, i'm moving over to the thread 'has it all been done on the piano?'  this might be another topic of interest to you.  being that many people simply close the lid on their piano and use it as a table.  you know.  just putting the days mail on it.  shuffling cards.  who knows what else.  i guess if you know how to use female intuition, having the lid down on the piano may be more effective to having it up. t hough i wouldn't use that technique on this particular student.  no. he's too shy to begin with.  plus, he's married.  to a psychologist.  they might put two and two together and figure out how you took the 6 measures and turned it into 9 measures.  pretty soon the piece will be too long.  as you knwo, we already discussed that at length. 

[ingagroznaya]

  i guess if you know how to use female intuition, having the lid down on the piano may be more effective to having it up.

Bob, Berhnard...
I am afraid something has been lost in translation.

[pianistimo]

ok.  having the lid down ont he piano means that you will not be concentrating on the piano during the lesson.  that's all i mean.  a woman's intuition would tell me that this would be a signal to the guy to get off the bench.  (something very hard to get students to do even when you want to play something for them).  in any case.  if you are really trying to teach this so called 'shy guy' - and give him a lesson he'll never forget - you'll probably have to ask permission from his wife.  i doubt she'll give you permission - which puts u back at square one.  the lid up.  the lid down. the lid up.  it can be a sort of recognition of his and your reluctance to go any farther.  jsut keep putting the lid up and down. he'll get the point.  pretty soon he'll hold your hand just to keep the lid up.  then you can take little risks together like daring each other to play before the lid goes down again.

[ingagroznaya]

ok.  having the lid down ont he piano means that you will not be concentrating on the piano during the lesson.  that's all i mean. 

Oh, I see...
I almost thought you were talking about "bodily functions"...

[ingagroznaya]

Where did "bodily functions" go? Now my reference makes no sense.
You, guys, are hysterical. Thank you for all your help.

[ingagroznaya]

I think there is something to his midsection that we can't see. It could be a colostomy. What do we know? There was something that made him nearly jump out of that chair and it was not me.

Hernia was on his midsection. I knew something was there dammn it! Case closed.

[pianistimo]

does this seriously affect his piano playing?  are you also of the 'solar plexus' school of playing.  that's where i get all my energy, too.  (besides spiritual energy)  i never heard of another teacher being at all concerned about 'mid-sections.'  but, you have to admit - you've been going back and forth between the mid section of the piece, to his mid-section.  i can almost see you looking at the music - looking at his mid section... 

the thing is - vocal teachers do the exact same thing.  in fact, once i saw a vocal teacher punch a student just slighty in the gut.  they let out some air - and then, the teacher said - 'take more air in this time.'  i had never seen any touching of this sort.  i thought for sure the teacher would get into trouble over this.  but, it seems that good teachers can get away with a lot. 

for me, it is posture.  i couldn't stand to see a student slumped over.  not sure if hernias do this to people - but this shy guy is your husband now.  so tell us...(if you want) is this affecting your sex life or his piano playing?  does he often get aches and pains - and now you just want to dump him (or fire him?).  are you wondering how to do it gracefully?  there is no graceful way to dump someone.  you just have to be blunt.  say something like - 'i know this may be painful for you - but i need someone with a little more umph in the mid-section.'  if he starts crying - just bide your time and tell him again in fewer words the next time he asks you to make him a sandwich or something you really don't want to do.  (hypothetical advice for a hypothetical situation).  of course, biblically, it is just plain wrong to leave someone for anything but adultery.  i'm not saying who should make the first move, but it seems to me that if you want to just end it - you have to be caught kissing another student when he walks in.  but,i'm not advising this.  really it would be against my better judgement and understanding of scripture.

basically, i think we should suffer for others.  therefore, take on the sufferring of this hernia and walk behind him whenever he looks like he can't stand up straight.  he'll get better someday.  maybe not. 

[bella musica]

Say "I really liked the way you played measures 18-35" (or whatever it is)

[richy321]

How about:  "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to be playing for me?"
or, "Nice six-pack; do you work out?"

I think that our Inga is working on a script for a movie, working title:  Mrs Robinson -- The Piano Teacher. 

On a serious note, however, it is actually important for the teacher to touch the student to check for tension build-up.  If you've seen Barbara Lister-Sink's DVD, "Freeing the Caged Bird", you will notice that the teacher is almost constantly touching the student on the shoulder, arm, hand, very lightly to check for excess tension.  She makes it clear, however, that the student must be forwarned and permission must be received for what is to come.  Otherwise, you might get the kind of startled reflex behavior that Inga described.

Rich Y   

[ingagroznaya]

How about:  "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to be playing for me?"
or, "Nice six-pack; do you work out?"

I think that our Inga is working on a script for a movie, working title:  Mrs Robinson -- The Piano Teacher. 

On a serious note, however, it is actually important for the teacher to touch the student to check for tension build-up.  If you've seen Barbara Lister-Sink's DVD, "Freeing the Caged Bird", you will notice that the teacher is almost constantly touching the student on the shoulder, arm, hand, very lightly to check for excess tension.  She makes it clear, however, that the student must be forwarned and permission must be received for what is to come.  Otherwise, you might get the kind of startled reflex behavior that Inga described.

Rich Y   

Startled? Startled by a compliment on his playing? I'm glad I could see through his pants.
It's me who's startled by his hernia. The student actually assured me that he is in great physical shape otherwise and indeed works out. 

I asked for his permission to be touched - never again!

[ingagroznaya]

  but, you have to admit - you've been going back and forth between the mid section of the piece, to his mid-section.  i can almost see you looking at the music - looking at his mid section... 

of course now I do!

[overcast_32]

haha..

Maybe you should say the 'central section'.

But if a female's giving me lessons, she can still comment on my mid-section, I won't mind... LOL!

[pianistimo]

imagine you have a carefully worded studio policy with a couple of disclaimers.  *enter at your own risk.  i can see through pants.

[faulty_damper]

The "middle of a piece" is called a Trio.

The middle of Fantasy-Impromptu is a trio.
The middle of the Funeral March movement is a trio.
The middle of a minuet is a trio.
The middle of a scherzo is a trio.
The middle of a sonata is a trio (though it is usually referred to as the "development" within the context of sonata form.)

There is no other term for the "middle of a piece" other than Trio.

[Kassaa]

The "middle of a piece" is called a Trio.

The middle of Fantasy-Impromptu is a trio.
The middle of the Funeral March movement is a trio.
The middle of a minuet is a trio.
The middle of a scherzo is a trio.
The middle of a sonata is a trio (though it is usually referred to as the "development" within the context of sonata form.)

There is no other term for the "middle of a piece" other than Trio.

"I liked the trio" sounds a bit weird, don't you think?

[arbisley]

I don't see the problem with trying to show a student how to do something if he didn't understand by you showing him how to do it by doing it yourself. (i'm very good at writing long complicated sentences to say simple things)

Anyway, the best thing is not to be self-conscious about it, although in this case it seems so complicated with al the fuzzy-wuzzy conversation which I don't all understand going on, apart from an attraction to middle sections.

This post has had more of an effect of making me laugh and roll on the ground than anything else. Just be yourself and stop fussing around!

[chocolatedog]

The "middle of a piece" is called a Trio.

The middle of Fantasy-Impromptu is a trio.
The middle of the Funeral March movement is a trio.
The middle of a minuet is a trio.
The middle of a scherzo is a trio.
The middle of a sonata is a trio (though it is usually referred to as the "development" within the context of sonata form.)

There is no other term for the "middle of a piece" other than Trio.

Development section? (Of sonata form........) 

B section (of ternary form) ? 

Middle section......(generally ) 

Not every middle section is a trio, surely?

[faulty_damper]

The contrasting section is called a trio.

If you try to find another term for trio other than the generic "middle section" or "middle part", you will not find one.

[ingagroznaya]

I liked the trio, but the term is too progressed. "Development" is good, but we have only played one sonatina. I'll stick to " central section". It really sounds... ummm.. neutral.

Neutral is good. The other day I've said something completely innocent and in the current atmosphere, a second later I've turned tomato red.

[quasimodo]

The contrasting section is called a trio.

If you try to find another term for trio other than the generic "middle section" or "middle part", you will not find one.

But trio is confusing with the sense of three instruments or voices 

[ingagroznaya]

"Central section" did the trick. It put me at ease and made me smile.  Midsection was on my tongue more then a few times, but I figured if worst comes to worst I'll fire "central" at last minute.

I'm trying to restrain my self and just point my finger to the .... part, adding: " here! "

[faulty_damper]

But trio is confusing with the sense of three instruments or voices 

Trio originally meant that the "middle section" was played by a trio, a smaller ensemble:
soloist, bass, and continuo.