Saint Saens 2nd Piano Concerto question

[jamie0168]

When there is only a single line being played (example: a fast arpeggio or scale up and down the keyboard) how does one know whether to overlap the hands (play one octave with LH the next with RH, etc.) or to play it as it appears on the score (top half of arp. played by RH, lower half by LH.)
I'm having a terrible time with the LONG durations of arpeggios in this piece, especially in the first movement.
When I listen to this piece, it's so beautiful and entertaining. When I play it, I get so bored! What am I doing wrong? I can't stay focused while I practice it. And it's so long!! When I learn a hard passage one day, the next day I go on to something else. The day afterwards, I've lost the "feel" for the first passage and I haev to start over again.
I need someone to help me organize a practice schedule for this piece. I have to have it learned by August ("learned" as in being able to play it through at written tempo, not ready for a performance, just lessons.)
Any tips/help/advice/anything is appreciated.

[elevateme]

havent read your question but come to young musician of the year final at sage gateshead uk, our friend cordelia is playing it

[shasta]

...When I listen to this piece, it's so beautiful and entertaining. When I play it, I get so bored! What am I doing wrong?...

Hi Jamie.  Yes, you've encountered one of the most common stumbling blocks of the S-S concerti.   

His concerti are VERY DEPENDENT on the orchestra - - -  it is often the piano playing the "background" while the orchestra takes the melody.  <-- While lovely to hear in concert, clearly the sum is greater than the individual parts.   Practicing the piano solo can be extremely tedious unless you have a buddy with you to play the orchestra part with you.

Question:  Are you learning the S-S #2 specifically for a competition?  If you're simply learning a concerto just for the heck of it, you may want to pick one a little more piano-dominant so that it keeps your attention and that you truly gain something from it.  Perhaps any of the Gershwin or Beethoven, which have more extended piano solos.  Good luck!

[walking_encyclopedia]

I can't say I agree with Shasta. in my opinion this is THE single most piano-dominant concerto of all of them. The orchestra part for the first movement is almost funny, there's practically nothing to it.

I recently soloed with a local symphony orchestra performing this piece, because i won a highschool concerto competiton. i chose this piece because I knew it was hard, and i thought it sounded awesome. i didn't know what i was getting myself into, because like you said it is a very difficult work. Saint-Saens had a thing with arpeggios. But i worked my tail off and finally did win the competition.

in response to your statement about being bored while playing it, i don't know if i can help you there. the one thing about this piece is that it's almost all soloist, from the huge dramatic opening cadenza with fast runs and huge chords, to the final fiery arpeggios. it's so involved, so exciting, that boredom was something that never really ocurred to me!

Okay. here's some tips that i found were helpful. in the middle section after you finish the part with the quiet descending thirds, then octaves, then more descending thirds with the orchestra, you settle into the main g minor theme with the right hand and a very fast arpeggio up and down with the left. Here's a tip. In that section, strike your g minor chords with the right hand and then cover the top of the arpeggio with the right hand. This will enable you to get more speed. Then in the crazy arpeggios that follow, use a crossover technique, and finger it out so that you can begin and finish the arpeggios clean.

When you get into your extended cadenza, remember that Saint-Saens penciled in at the top "a piacere" which means "as you like it". you can take some freedom, especially after you finish that huge arpeggio all the way up and down, and go into the chords and octaves. in that section think of answering back and forth in different registers of the piano and build to an explosive climax in the "appassionata" octaves that bring the cadenza down to a new, very quiet, wrenching theme. Bring the orchestra back in so quietly that the conducter hardly knows that you've finished!

Then remember to keep it so quiet in the recap (of the theme from the very beginning of the concerto) that the audience has to strain to hear it. In the fast descending arpeggios and the three closing arpeggio runs build and then bring out the most huge sound that you can possibly push out of the piano.

Well i've already gone on too long. hopefully you can make some sense out of my explanations.

Get Stephen Hough's recording for the speed and accuracy vital in this piece, and then listen to Andre Watts's recording for the emotion and sensitivity just as vital.

Start your practice sessions by listening to these great artists to get you "excited" about playing this piece. Then remember to break each technical problem down to the most basic element before building it back up.

One final note: if you're preparing for a competition do NOT run this piece all the way through in your practice sessions. Instead work in small sections, otherwise the precision necessary for the arpeggios will degenerate into smudges.

Good luck.

[kaiwin]

Hey, I'm learning this! We should help each other out!
I'm going to take this to Indiana and I hope to learn a few things there, but to tell you the truth, the beginning isn't the part you should worry about the most, trust me. Its the middle sections and the ending. I have no trouble with the beginning but in the beginning the pedal needs to be sustained, so the notes don't get blurred.  I'm hoping to play this with my orchestra next year and for competition.
And yes I agree. This is really really piano dominant. Like the chopin concertos, saint-saens didn't really care about the orchestra in his second concerto. He did it in 3 weeks which is already amazing. I also agree with walking on working in "small" sections.

[jamie0168]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I agree that this definately a piano solo with orchestral accompaniment. SS sure did love arpeggios. Thoe arps are killing me! I can play them at about half speed at this point.
Thanks for the tips on the theme recap in first mvmt.
I am learning this exclusively for a competition. I want to play it with my orchestra (one, because the orch. parts are easy and my orchestra sucks; two, becuase I want the audience to experience this wonderful piece!)
How should I  schedule the practice map for this piece? I know all the tricks like playing in sections, starting at the end and working backwards, but are there any sure fire ways to make sure that I have the entire thing techincally learned by August, not leaving anything or section out?
I'm sorry if I seem so nuts about this concerto. But this competition/performance means ALOT to me.

[kaiwin]

Again I'm also learning this concerto hoping to play it in competition and stuff. We can keep contact with each other if you need any help. Is your teacher ( I assume you have one) willing to teach you this? That is the first question I have. Send me a message if you want to keep contact.


for the trouble with arpeggios and stuff, can you play arpeggios pretty fast and clear?
Especially the G-minor arpeggios. If not do that first otherwise you'll die in the arpeggio section.